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Anime Sharing - Netorare General Discussion Thread

their Taimanin Asagi Battle Arena game was printing them money. minimum budget with maximum profit. why keep making new games that cost more to develop and don't make as much return.

the only reason they're developing games again is because it's finally slowing down. if you take a look at the charts, it's no longer in the top 10 games or sometimes doesn't even make tops some weeks. it's a dying game, but it had a good 3-4 years for them.

same with empress. after closed game, they also joined the DMM Gatcha games brigade and didn't have to develop games, but empress game was shut down pretty fast, it really sucked. no idea why they haven't come back to developing yet. the biggest problem was that they just re-used CG from their games. why would people pay money AGAIN to get old scenes.
 
What was the whole story behind Lilith-soft anyway? For the longest time they were very much the Atelier Sakura of monthly game releases for many years, then suddenly around the time a live action AV was made they barely released any games at all - like maybe 1 every 6 months if that.

In the past 6 months they seemed to have regained some live with at least 2 recent releases but still, anybody know what happened?

Everything was fine until the TABA nation attacked............
 
i noticed the wall scroll part... they always seem to be selling new wall scrolls on their website. must be working then. though i would really love more art from sei, his women have such voluptuous bodies.
 
I can actually answer the Empress question personally knowing Sei from way back in 1997, who the company was basically founded by after he left Active-soft due to conflicts during the Discipline development and following anime OVA rights sale. Basically yes they looked to make some easy money from DMM and people paid make no mistake, but more importantly its just easier for him to produce wall scrolls, pillow covers or the odd new piece of artwork for DMM game - mostly because he's older now. I believe he's in his forties and at this stage producing eroge games is very much a hobby and its easier to make money/produce a few new pieces of artwork for various things then to make a full blown game every 6 months, plus his games are well documented for delays too due to story and art issues.

Discipline for example was shipped before it was even finished and required a patch to implement another ending because the company needed to ship it for various reasons. I haven't talked to him for ages now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started working on a new concept for a game - a few times and scrapped it, or keep changing aspects. Basically development hell.

Its funny how many people recommend the Discipline anime/ova and how popular it is, it was one of the first blu-ray hentai releases too! Yet Sei hated it with every fiber of his body, his stories are about dark themes entangle with tragic romance and the OVA basically turned "dark" into the supernatural school club as a comedy hentai. Then after he left active-soft they kept rebranding themselves (I believe it was like 2 people at this point and its assets resold or something) then Kitty Media/Media blasters became involved in translating the games.

I actually remember emailing Media Blasters president John Sirabella by Sei's request because they changed a bunch of names such as Reona to Leona. John was a total ass and ignored Sei's request because he thought Leona sounded stronger in english like a "lioness" then Reona which he claimed was Sei not properly translating english but it was a play off words with her sister Reina > Reona. Honestly John was a total asshole in his emails to me and Sei, he thought he knew better and totally disrespected artistic expression for his own ego bullshit that he knew better.

You'd think the bullshit would stop there but when the wiki-page was made around the anime/game Sei actually changed the name of Leona to Reona on it AS his expressed name of her as the creator using a linked character sketch reference as its creator with her name penned "reona". Fucking John went in and changed it back using bad translating as reason. WTF right. It went back and forth for a while, eventually we just said fuck it. I'm not sure why Leona stuck as her name in the english dubbed anime, but he made it his mission to piss all over Sei and change her name to Leona wherever he could. They even removed the original game plot and put up the anime's plot for wikipedia - which again Sei completely hated. Completely despised. They literally shit all over his creation from one end to the other. For a while there was a note saying names might differ based on region or something official but even thats gone now or mentioned that the plots between the game and anime are totally different.

Now younger fans of eroge have never seen Sei's artwork or played what is basically games from nearly 20 years ago. Even Bible Black is a thing of the past now.

So the whole Discipline thing is truly a mess from start to finish, which is too bad because Sei actually had a really cool idea for a sequel that took place on...ok its been forever but if I recall it was a riding ranch/school thing owned by the sisters family (like the school was from Discipline) where a bunch of rich girls go. Reona's younger sister was going to be the your love interest who wasn't like her sisters (who would only make cameos), but per tragic circumstances gets punished throughout the story to make her more like them, ect. There was to be a LOT of bestiality in it and stuff.

All of that got cancelled and Sei had never shared this idea at Active-soft before he left since the first game was still fresh and the issues around it hot. Following that it left such a bad taste in Sei's mouth from what happened at Active-soft, he dropped the whole story idea. I still wish he would have re-visited the idea in some way, even as a kind of easter egg thing alluding to Discipline (but maybe the sisters never appear or something) but it will never happen because of everything around it.

LOL or funny shit could happen and somebody he knows could be reading this, say hey a guy on this website posted he knows you and mentioned something about Discipline 2. At which point I get an email from him asking if I still have all the original emails we shared about it, although he wouldnt' know me by tentacle bandit. I used to go by a very different name back in the glory days of the internets but its still active as my yahoo.co.jp account.

Basically hollywood happened......

It would be cool if he released that as a manga or something, if he did 1 big doujin per year (or every 2 years) i would be cool, well so long as they are "complete" or ay least not end up in cliffhangers xD.

So to avoid multiple posts: anyone care to tell me what jinsei said in this week's blog? or at leasts wich game that picture was from? (i think tennis game)

And anyone knows if doujin-mpe translated or plans to translate this: https://exhentai.org/g/1098039/67e0342cbd/ ? they did the first 2 parts and they were awesome!!! Not exactly ntr, more like netori but for some reason i loved them.
 

with that info about discipline 2 and knowing how much he loved bestiality and pregnancy and how we got that pregnant sex with pigs and horses scenes in starless. he didn't mention if he would have ever had an ending where the girls actually got pregnant by the animals did he? i think i only seen like 1 game that actually had the girls get pregnant by animals. i know you can't actually get pregnant by animals, but this is a world of fantasy.

if any one would have done it, i had a feeling Sei would have.


i have an NTR request. was reading Jin's Tachinbana doujin again. i swear, it's a masterpiece. one scenario that always gets me is when the girls feel cornered, but will only allow the sex if they use condoms. after a while, they get to into and allow the guys to do it raw.

so my question is, any VN or doujins that have men use condoms at the girls request and then after enough pestering if they can remove it. the women allow the men to go raw because the sex was good. i remember taimanin asagi 3 actually have this kind of scene with asuka.
 
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Now younger fans of eroge have never seen Sei's artwork or played what is basically games from nearly 20 years ago. Even Bible Black is a thing of the past now.

So the whole Discipline thing is truly a mess from start to finish, which is too bad because Sei actually had a really cool idea for a sequel that took place on...ok its been forever but if I recall it was a riding ranch/school thing owned by the sisters family (like the school was from Discipline) where a bunch of rich girls go. Reona's younger sister was going to be the your love interest who wasn't like her sisters (who would only make cameos), but per tragic circumstances gets punished throughout the story to make her more like them, ect. There was to be a LOT of bestiality in it and stuff.
Well thematically it a bit resembles Starless. Big mansion with sadistic spoiled sisters (and their mother), some scenes with animals. So i guess he implemented some of his ideas there. But yeah, its sad when some potentially amazing projects never got released or released in butchered form after going through development hell. I also like bestiality, i pretty much like everything that is not vanilla B\G as long as there interesting story to tie it to and not just to present you scene after scene with no real plot or characters development.

I still hope one day he will make more games, i mean what else can you do as an old retired Japanese man, as long as you got steady hands and somewhat still clear mind
:smug:
 
I love Empress games, but god I wish the scat/bestiality/extreme bdsm was avoidable.
 
I can actually answer the Empress question personally knowing Sei from way back in 1997, who the company was basically founded by after he left Active-soft due to conflicts during the Discipline development and following anime OVA rights sale. Basically yes they looked to make some easy money from DMM and people paid make no mistake, but more importantly its just easier for him to produce wall scrolls, pillow covers or the odd new piece of artwork for DMM game - mostly because he's older now. I believe he's in his forties and at this stage producing eroge games is very much a hobby and its easier to make money/produce a few new pieces of artwork for various things then to make a full blown game every 6 months, plus his games are well documented for delays too due to story and art issues.

Discipline for example was shipped before it was even finished and required a patch to implement another ending because the company needed to ship it for various reasons. I haven't talked to him for ages now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started working on a new concept for a game - a few times and scrapped it, or keep changing aspects. Basically development hell.

Its funny how many people recommend the Discipline anime/ova and how popular it is, it was one of the first blu-ray hentai releases too! Yet Sei hated it with every fiber of his body, his stories are about dark themes entangle with tragic romance and the OVA basically turned "dark" into the supernatural school club as a comedy hentai. Then after he left active-soft they kept rebranding themselves (I believe it was like 2 people at this point and its assets resold or something) then Kitty Media/Media blasters became involved in translating the games.

I actually remember emailing Media Blasters president John Sirabella by Sei's request because they changed a bunch of names such as Reona to Leona. John was a total ass and ignored Sei's request because he thought Leona sounded stronger in english like a "lioness" then Reona which he claimed was Sei not properly translating english but it was a play off words with her sister Reina > Reona. Honestly John was a total asshole in his emails to me and Sei, he thought he knew better and totally disrespected artistic expression for his own ego bullshit that he knew better.

You'd think the bullshit would stop there but when the wiki-page was made around the anime/game Sei actually changed the name of Leona to Reona on it AS his expressed name of her as the creator using a linked character sketch reference as its creator with her name penned "reona". Fucking John went in and changed it back using bad translating as reason. WTF right. It went back and forth for a while, eventually we just said fuck it. I'm not sure why Leona stuck as her name in the english dubbed anime, but he made it his mission to piss all over Sei and change her name to Leona wherever he could. They even removed the original game plot and put up the anime's plot for wikipedia - which again Sei completely hated. Completely despised. They literally shit all over his creation from one end to the other. For a while there was a note saying names might differ based on region or something official but even thats gone now or mentioned that the plots between the game and anime are totally different.

Now younger fans of eroge have never seen Sei's artwork or played what is basically games from nearly 20 years ago. Even Bible Black is a thing of the past now.

So the whole Discipline thing is truly a mess from start to finish, which is too bad because Sei actually had a really cool idea for a sequel that took place on...ok its been forever but if I recall it was a riding ranch/school thing owned by the sisters family (like the school was from Discipline) where a bunch of rich girls go. Reona's younger sister was going to be the your love interest who wasn't like her sisters (who would only make cameos), but per tragic circumstances gets punished throughout the story to make her more like them, ect. There was to be a LOT of bestiality in it and stuff.

All of that got cancelled and Sei had never shared this idea at Active-soft before he left since the first game was still fresh and the issues around it hot. Following that it left such a bad taste in Sei's mouth from what happened at Active-soft, he dropped the whole story idea. I still wish he would have re-visited the idea in some way, even as a kind of easter egg thing alluding to Discipline (but maybe the sisters never appear or something) but it will never happen because of everything around it.

LOL or funny shit could happen and somebody he knows could be reading this, say hey a guy on this website posted he knows you and mentioned something about Discipline 2. At which point I get an email from him asking if I still have all the original emails we shared about it, although he wouldnt' know me by tentacle bandit. I used to go by a very different name back in the glory days of the internets but its still active as my yahoo.co.jp account.

Yeah I recall a guy on HF Satinscreamdelight who also sprouted similar stuff of knowing "insider" stuff. Also said he translated Himekishi Lilia and some other games too then went AWOL when called on it.

discipline-record-of-the-crusade-the-game-vs-video-and-what-went-wrong: http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forum...e-game-vs-video-and-what-went-wrong#post21339
Old HF Starless thread:
http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forum...iscipline-upcoming-game?p=3061852#post3061852

:spitlaugh:

The you have this: http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forum...-the-making-of-discipline-2-and-what-happened :XD:
 
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Ya I'm aware of Satincreamdelight, when I went to try and rip Aisaiger's script file a couple years ago I did a search and found his thread claiming he was translating the game(s?). I remember him because somebody apparently even made a program to decrypt Aisaiger ID files (that have the script) who posted it - THEN satin asked for them to delete that post so nobody else could have it but him. Like wtf why?? Cleary he put it to good use....

Anyway Satin never claimed he knew Sei, he used that whole friend of a friend...of a friend routine who worked at Active-soft. Looking back at those threads you linked, I love how Satin suddenly had all this insider information about Discipline content that existed (it didn't, the only content that didn't make print was ending 5 eventually released as patch - end story.) Discipline 2 is basically pretty well established that was Starless, not a huge leap there. Maybe Satin did know somebody, I have friends who know people that work at EA but that doesn't mean I know them or anything about the Sims 5 other then Maxis tweets Sims 4 has many years left lol.

As for the end of Active-soft its not really insider stuff (clearly) and everything Satin said is pretty basic knowledge/easy to put together if you followed Active-soft/Empress development. Although looking back that guy made more shit up then my ex-gf from Poco (its a shitty little suburb lol).

The disappearance of satin reminds me of the guy who made Visual Novel Reader. He literally updated that thing almost everyday, it was his baby then BOOM gone like that. I actually did some research on the VNR creator and theorized maybe he died/was a student on Sinking of MV Sewol based on time frames of the last update and his disappearance (also I believe he was south korean) but can't remember why I found this out/thought that lol. However apparently his account was logged into last year somebody I asked pointed out, so who knows. I truly don't. Maybe he just got tired of it and left? Maybe eroge companies were angry at him (why though?) As for Satin, no idea why he went AWOL he clearly didn't care people called him a liar all the time and he just kept posting. Was he banned?

I do wish the VNR creator would resurface...I know a little bit of Kanji (mostly moaning lol) but need a good machine helper when I play eroge unfortunately and VNR was the best. I actually wanted to use it to translate the Aisaiger script and try to write a story taking my favorite parts of Aisaiger (basically just around the wife) since its like impossible to run the game now.

If we start with the friend of a friend i can claim my brother had this teacher (programming stuff) that moved to canada (like so many others.....) and ended up working for Bugisoft, better known as Ubisoft xD
 
Ya I'm aware of Satincreamdelight, when I went to try and rip Aisaiger's script file a couple years ago I did a search and found his thread claiming he was translating the game(s?). I remember him because somebody apparently even made a program to decrypt Aisaiger ID files (that have the script) who posted it - THEN satin asked for them to delete that post so nobody else could have it but him. Like wtf why?? Cleary he put it to good use....

Anyway Satin never claimed he knew Sei, he used that whole friend of a friend...of a friend routine who worked at Active-soft. Looking back at those threads you linked, I love how Satin suddenly had all this insider information about Discipline content that existed (it didn't, the only content that didn't make print was ending 5 eventually released as patch - end story.) Discipline 2 is basically pretty well established that was Starless, not a huge leap there. Maybe Satin did know somebody, I have friends who know people that work at EA but that doesn't mean I know them or anything about the Sims 5 other then Maxis tweets Sims 4 has many years left lol.

As for the end of Active-soft its not really insider stuff (clearly) and everything Satin said is pretty basic knowledge/easy to put together if you followed Active-soft/Empress development. Although looking back that guy made more shit up then my ex-gf from Poco (its a shitty little suburb lol).

The disappearance of satin reminds me of the guy who made Visual Novel Reader. He literally updated that thing almost everyday, it was his baby then BOOM gone like that. I actually did some research on the VNR creator and theorized maybe he died/was a student on Sinking of MV Sewol based on time frames of the last update and his disappearance (also I believe he was south korean) but can't remember why I found this out/thought that lol. However apparently his account was logged into last year somebody I asked pointed out, so who knows. I truly don't. Maybe he just got tired of it and left? Maybe eroge companies were angry at him (why though?) As for Satin, no idea why he went AWOL he clearly didn't care people called him a liar all the time and he just kept posting. Was he banned?

I do wish the VNR creator would resurface...I know a little bit of Kanji (mostly moaning lol) but need a good machine helper when I play eroge unfortunately and VNR was the best. I actually wanted to use it to translate the Aisaiger script and try to write a story taking my favorite parts of Aisaiger (basically just around the wife) since its like impossible to run the game now.

LOL The point I'm making is you are talking rubbish and just making people aware they should take it all with a pinch of salt.
How did you go from this: http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forum...-the-making-of-discipline-2-and-what-happened
TDLR:
Hey there hongfire..ers...hmmm, so I started doing some good old digging over the months, after reading there was a Discipline 2 in the works (once when Sei was still at activesoft) via various sources including old hongfire threads (including one of your own members named satincreamdelight who I almost wonder WAS SEI or at least certainly new him considering some of the legit inside info in his posts)
To this:
I can actually answer the Empress question personally knowing Sei from way back in 1997...
(You had to look stuff up about Discpline 2 to now having been talking back in 1997) :laughpanda:
The stuff your spouting came from HF under similar dubious claims and story changes except now it's you used to know him back in 1997 to try make the claim seem more legit, similar thing SCD also did.
You might has well said you are Sei Shoujo and enjoy larping on hentai boards. :innocent:

If you want to play the knock of games to Bible Black and Discipline and be thoughly dissapointed here is the info:
https://vndb.org/v1030
https://vndb.org/v1793

When Sei left Active and went with Will-Plus to create the Empress brand his first game free of Active was Cleavage a very different type of game to Starless.

According to Peter Payne of JAST USA who we know worked with Empress due to them releasing the English Version of Starless (which has a small interview with Sei in English), he claimed that Empress games had not been selling enough which is why they took Starless on even though they wanted to cancel it due to the nature of its contents. This in turn with the evident failed gacha game and the turn to merchandise now means it's very unlikely that they will ever make another game.

If you like Sei Shoujo's art style his understudy is this guy Hazuki/羽津樹 they have uncanny styles.
His worked with him since the PC-98/Active-Soft days and helped him on a bunch of games including Discipline in the art department. https://vndb.org/s1007
http://park8.wakwak.com/~hazuki/


Though the type of content he offers is not the same in his solo works.

Other then that you can learn to emulate PC-98 and play Sei's Active early works with amazing pixel based art work.
Games like Angel Halo

It's possible to use translation hookers with some of the PC-98 games though mileage will vary.
 
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what are some NTR orgies, where the MC has lots of girls around him that like him / are interested in him, but all of them get fucked. their is scenes were all the girls are being fucked at the same time and he's not included.

just re-read NNN, i loved that the main girl even though she was pregnant, never liked the NTR guys or gave into to the very end.

also was it you tentacles that asked about NTR where it looks vanilla, but has suprise NTR? found another one just now. Peace Hame and Peace Hame Ge. 16 chapters, the NTR doesn't happen until the very end chapters. MC still keeps the girls, but every girl gets raped even the main girl. this sorta falls under my request above too lol.
 
check the post above yours, it's NTR talk again and i think you were the guy looking for the fake vanilla NTR. if not you, my bad or if you've already read it, sorry about that too lol.
 
ill keep an eye out. i'm also looking for it. not much people recommending NTR as they use to. alicesoft's latest game better be NTR! they are the go to of NTR games.
 
peace hame is 2 parts. peace hame Ge being part 2. in total there are 16 chapters between the two.

the NTR is in part 2 at the very last part, so they held on forever being doing it. making the build up even better.

unless you mean the Grimoire game. yeah, there is no NTR advertised. it's really easy to get NTR bad ends, there is literally 2 choices every time. choose wrong and bad end. load save and choose right way to continue. IIRC, it's been like 5 years or so since i played it.
 
The last place I was going to say I knew Sei, was in a thread basically being lead by Satin, so it was just easier to "dig it up" back then I assume probably not contradict Satin who at the time I was trying to get the Aisaiger file from. I honestly don't remember shit I did two weeks ago though, I've always hated it when people claim to know people and ya probably shouldn't have said it here because of these reasons. Regardless sorry I didn't correct myself by saying "back then I said this on hongfire because blah blah" before posting here a few days ago - a little blurb apparently that set your pants afire like some crazy fan...I mean seriously...this is old news man! Its pretty easy to find out what happened at Active-soft and why Sei left, I'm sure if you post on 2ch or search about them you'll find out even more then I do.

Plus Acticely or Kuri or whatever they kept changing their name to games (that you linked) ARE the knock offs I already mentioned sooo......ok? Thanks for proving my point?

Yes I do agree though, this is the internet and yes you should take everything with a grain of salt no matter who its coming from - even game developers like the people who work at Maxis lol.

If you don't want me to talk about Sei, I'm fine with that. This is an NTR thread dude, not some weird Sei shrine. You seem more worked then warrants the attention man. Relax, go smoke some weed and chill.

If you don't wanna be called out stop making up crap then. Discpline 2 was never on the cards becuase Sei left Active way before that could ever happen along with Hazuki who went to work for will-plus, Hazuki went to the Skunk works label, while Sei made the Empress label. His first game was Cleavage which is a soft-core game and it bombed many expect due to the changes of it being more vanilla hence why he did Starless to appeal to fans of his Active works he got known for. Due to the delays on Starless taking 5 year to make with Sei stating one reaso being due to starting it with old PC tech then having to learning more digital techniques to another of evolving the games color palettes. These are all sources from the Empress Blog. In the Starless art book Sei said he spent a lot of time think of new hardcore ideas during Starless production and nothing of the BS of I had it planned for a Discpline 2 or left over ideas. These are all legit sources from Empress and Sei not some I got it from 2ch larp BS.

You and SCD are the only two BS I know who started this whole Sei had planned Discpline 2 BS so I'm calling you out stop propagating the same lie about discpline 2 the same lie that SCD did and now saying it's real cuz Sei told me through e-mail, instead of through a "friend" if you don't wanna be called out.
 
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Ya thats what I was goooing to play but then I ended up reading the manga and just finished it (fast reader) its def. ntr but it hmmm...there is SO much harem like sex I never felt like it was NTR in some ways - yes the one girl aka love interest did get ntr but she never really enjoyed it - rather she endured...I really loved the idea of a school year book filled with sex pictures of every girl though...only in anime world....man we need virtual reality now....

ah, didn't know you wanted them to fall for the NTR'ers. in that case yeah, it came out a little weak as none of them became broken. it was nice to see a harem that big, get taken with no one spared though. shame they didn't go with bad ending.
 
I never ask it before, but what do you think about mindcontrol apps trend in NTR works , do you like it?
 
can you explain or give a sample work?

i've seen a few mind control apps, but never mind control app NTR.

like the MC has a girl and some guy takes his girl using the app?

i remember there was that shota kings app or something, but it wasn't NTR IIRC.
 
I never ask it before, but what do you think about mindcontrol apps trend in NTR works , do you like it?

I really like it, so long as it's the slow burn kind of mind control rather than the 'presses button, she's a complete slut now' kind, that tends to be pretty lazy plotwise. Stuff where the girl has her perception altered slightly or is toyed with while entranced and slowly becoming more lewd, before eventually falling into NTR of her own accord, is great.

My avatar might give it away but Psymin Appli is a real favorite of mine, and especially Emma, who is the best. That game in particular created a really great sense of tension and mystery with its mind control app battle royale set-up, and some clever narrative tricks. I really ought to play the Another extra soon, but I was so disappointed they went with following on from Emma's corruption route rather than the pure NTR one I haven't bothered...
 
Although I wonder why more games dont get fan translations, I'd imagine its easier to replace a games script then re-write an entire manga....
Games do get fan (and official) translations more often now then ever before, just recently we got Kangoku Senkan 3 translation patch here. So now we pretty much have all of this series in English minus recent Academia which I'm sure someone will translate in a couple of years.

As i mention earlier hentai is getting more and more popular as times go, just take a look at Steam or rise of hentai/anime themed memes. Especially since more and more people will stay at homes alone fapping instead of having families\relationships and i think hentai in that sense if far superior to ordinary porn. There is still some stigma like loli=pedo, but i think its getting more often used ironically then literally. And even then i think its better to have loli porn for "pedos" so real children would be safe.

Another problem is that some lefties SJW corporations (Patreon, Tumblr, etc) try to impose their views on what should be acceptable or not while disregarding what "ordinary" people think. They try to push back things and ban loli, porn, sexy females in games and events, etc, and they do succeed at some degree but i hope that common sense and rationale will win in the end.
 
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I never ask it before, but what do you think about mindcontrol apps trend in NTR works , do you like it?

I don't like mind control, because I think that for the girl to be truly stolen from the MC, the "villain" must steal her heart, not only her body. In a mind control scenario the girl is not "really there", the guy is stealing just her body, so it is harder to feel jealousy and loss. Also, I like to see the true feelings and reactions of the girl, in a mind control situation I keep doubting her reactions, even the ones of pleasure. The parts that I look foward the most in a NTR are the psychological stuff (deceit, paranoia, jealousy, dissimulation, etc) and mind control take some of this.
 
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I never ask it before, but what do you think about mindcontrol apps trend in NTR works , do you like it?

I'm not a huge fan. My initial reaction is really to say it sucks, the problem with mid control is the lack of corruption and conquest. I like a slow build, the longer she resists the sweeter it is when she gives in. But when I think about the stories i've read involving it I like them well enough. So I guess really indifference. If the sub genre went away tomorrow I wouldn't miss it, but if a new release comes out i'll probably read it.