KanColle Headquarter!

[moemoe-kyun]

The pain of Ex3-5 is not the boss node itself :P

Yes >.<. Another run and heavy damage (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻.

Edit:
Last run, i finally reach boss and kill boss in night battle... That's all for today.

 

[YusukeroWTF]

Hmm ... sorry I dunno this info, I was uninformed about the wiki... I was sure or I was doubting about the English version but that gives me a reason, Thanks for the info

 

[Shir0]

The 2nd node on 3-5 northern route sucks, if there are 3 wo-class. I had most luck with the southern route.

 

[ancer_nyaa]

Can anyone teach me about the planes?

I am currently trying to comprehend why most of my Carriers consume so much Bauxite, Akagi consumes 10-130 bauxite every sortie I do, her repair time is absurdly long too

 

[KingArturia]

Can anyone teach me about the planes?

I am currently trying to comprehend why most of my Carriers consume so much Bauxite, Akagi consumes 10-130 bauxite every sortie I do, her repair time is absurdly long too

All remodelled ships should take twice as long to repair, CV and BB generally takes the longest time to repair, can go up to 24 hours or more depending on the leveling of your ships and how much hp it have left. As for the planes, using a lot of bauxite means that your planes are being shot down a lot, if most of them are shot down then they cost more bauxite, if less then its the opposite, simple. Now if you cannot obtain the air superiority (green thing you see at the bottom when you're in air combat phase, the first phase before anything happen) then you're bound to lose a moderate amount of planes. If you lose air superiority (so you see a red thing at the bottom) then it is likely you'll lose a lot of planes, hence contribution to the bauxite bills. Now to obtain air superiority it comes from your plane counts and what planes you put in there. So for Akagi's example, you'll generally want to put green planes in the 2nd and 3rd slot because they are the highest plane count slot and thus will give you the most AA stats in the calculation. You're free to put 4x Green if you're struggling to get air superiority, but for normal advancing/grinding purpose, only 2 greens are necessary. The other two slot is generally up to you, the smallest one will always go to the Saiun if you're planning to use a Saiun, if not generally 1 red and 1 blue will do the trick.

P.S. even getting air superiority you're still able to lose planes as they still get shoot down as well. The more experienced TTK can probably tell you in more depth on how this works.

 

[ancer_nyaa]

All remodelled ships should take twice as long to repair, CV and BB generally takes the longest time to repair, can go up to 24 hours or more depending on the leveling of your ships and how much hp it have left. As for the planes, using a lot of bauxite means that your planes are being shot down a lot, if most of them are shot down then they cost more bauxite, if less then its the opposite, simple. Now if you cannot obtain the air superiority (green thing you see at the bottom when you're in air combat phase, the first phase before anything happen) then you're bound to lose a moderate amount of planes. If you lose air superiority (so you see a red thing at the bottom) then it is likely you'll lose a lot of planes, hence contribution to the bauxite bills. Now to obtain air superiority it comes from your plane counts and what planes you put in there. So for Akagi's example, you'll generally want to put green planes in the 2nd and 3rd slot because they are the highest plane count slot and thus will give you the most AA stats in the calculation. You're free to put 4x Green if you're struggling to get air superiority, but for normal advancing/grinding purpose, only 2 greens are necessary. The other two slot is generally up to you, the smallest one will always go to the Saiun if you're planning to use a Saiun, if not generally 1 red and 1 blue will do the trick.

P.S. even getting air superiority you're still able to lose planes as they still get shoot down as well. The more experienced TTK can probably tell you in more depth on how this works.

Thank you very much! I feel wiser now! Level up!

 

[Icchan]

Can anyone teach me about the planes?

I am currently trying to comprehend why most of my Carriers consume so much Bauxite, Akagi consumes 10-130 bauxite every sortie I do, her repair time is absurdly long too

Consumption of Bauxite during resupply is generally dependent on how much planes you lost. Loss of planes is different among Fighters(Green), Dive Bombers(Red) and Torpedo Bombers(Blue)

Dive Bombers are your most reliable source of damage when it's Shelling Phase. These planes are the 2nd least shot down plane amongst the 3 combat planes and have a reliable rate of damage.

Torpedo Bombers have an advantage over the Dive Bombers when it comes to the Preemptive Aerial Bombing phase but the damage is dependent on the planes you have left. These planes are the most shot down planes amongst the 3 combat planes. These planes have a chance of becoming weaker or more powerful than Dive Bombers when it comes to damage.

Fighters are your main source of Fighter Power and is pretty much where most of your plane count would go. These guys get shot down the least amongst the 3 combat planes if I recall right.

The more Fighter power you have, the better it is for your fleet in general, Air Superiority means you have about 1.5x more Fighter Power than the opposing fleet and you'd have shot down a lot of enemy planes while losing a few planes while Air Supremacy is when you have 3x more Fighter Power than the opposing fleet and you'd have shot down most enemy planes while sustaining even fewer plane losses than Air Superiority and effectively dropping their firepower when it comes to being bombed by planes.

In addition gaining Air Superiority or Air Supremacy, your side will be able to use Artillery Spotting. Artillery Spotting is pretty much Night Battle attacks(Double Attack or Cut-In) that is useable in Day Battle but weaker. Like Night Battle attacks, this requires a combination of equipment but additionally requires Seaplanes.

Inversely, if you don't have enough Fighter Power, enemies will be getting the advantage.

Edit: Generally people use 2 Fighter, 1 Bomber, 1??? or at least I do for most of my Aircraft Carriers.
My Akagi+Kaga setup looks like this:

Akagi:
20 Tenzan Model 12(Tomonaga Squadron)
20 Reppu
32 Reppu (601 Air Group)
10 Saiun

Kaga:
20 Suisei(Egusa Squadron)
20 Reppu
46 Reppu Kai
12 Ryuusei (601 Air Group)

As for your repair time, Remodeling any ship practically doubles the repair time and the repair time also scales based on the level of the ship excluding the class of the ship.

 

[FireShark]

Thank god the difficulty option is back for the event.
I had enough of suffering through Hard Mode.

¬ Time to chill and level my Choukai Maya combo after scraping the Myouko classes.

 

[KingArturia]

Damn it, that means I've going to do Hard Mode from start to finish again xD This will be fun.

Torpedo Bombers have an advantage over the Dive Bombers when it comes to the Preemptive Aerial Bombing phase but the damage is dependent on the planes you have left. These planes are the most shot down planes amongst the 3 combat planes. These planes have a chance of becoming weaker or more powerful than Dive Bombers when it comes to damage.

Back in the time when I tried to prepare for AL/MI I was asking people on the English wikia, a few of the more experience TTK told me that blues are really only effective against anything below CL Flag, if it is anything higher they generally don't really do much damage and you're better off to go red instead. Is that true or its just a myth?

 

[Icchan]

Back in the time when I tried to prepare for AL/MI I was asking people on the English wikia, a few of the more experience TTK told me that blues are really only effective against anything below CL Flag, if it is anything higher they generally don't really do much damage and you're better off to go red instead. Is that true or its just a myth?

Yeah, there were discussion like that about Torpedo bombers being only effective against lighter ship classes and using Dive Bombers against the heavier ships. Not sure about now since I haven't picked up on people's recent data tests on it. The "Combat" page of the wikia still states otherwise.

If I recall right, the reason why Dive Bombers is usually better than Torpedo Bombers is because they directly tap into the firepower of the ship while Torpedo Bombers only use the torpedo stat which the planes come with. Generally, the idea would be to use BOTH Dive Bomber and Torpedo Bomber so that the damage output of your Aircraft Carrier would be the combination of both rather than just one. But as far as I can tell, that's pretty hard to do nowadays since Fighter>Torpedo/Dive Bomber and you need at least on slot for the Saiun.

The reason why I stick to Torpedo bombers is mostly due to the fact that my torpedo bombers are pretty strong and hope that the Preemptive Aerial Bombing Phase takes out something.

Personally, I still think that using Dive Bombers as it is would be better than Torpedo Bombers when it comes to heavy ships and that Torpedo Bombers are more effective against the lighter ones. This is me considering the payload of the bombs dropped by Dive Bombers to be heavier than the torpedoes carried by Torpedo Bombers since torpedoes still need to be propelled to their targets while being light enough to be carried as opposed to the bombs just being dropped as is.



And now back to extreme resource hoarding without setting foot into Orel Sea or similar resource farming maps!

 

[KingArturia]

Yeah, there were discussion like that about Torpedo bombers being only effective against lighter ship classes and using Dive Bombers against the heavier ships. Not sure about now since I haven't picked up on people's recent data tests on it. The "Combat" page of the wikia still states otherwise.

If I recall right, the reason why Dive Bombers is usually better than Torpedo Bombers is because they directly tap into the firepower of the ship while Torpedo Bombers only use the torpedo stat which the planes come with. Generally, the idea would be to use BOTH Dive Bomber and Torpedo Bomber so that the damage output of your Aircraft Carrier would be the combination of both rather than just one. But as far as I can tell, that's pretty hard to do nowadays since Fighter>Torpedo/Dive Bomber and you need at least on slot for the Saiun.

The reason why I stick to Torpedo bombers is mostly due to the fact that my torpedo bombers are pretty strong and hope that the Preemptive Aerial Bombing Phase takes out something.

Personally, I still think that using Dive Bombers as it is would be better than Torpedo Bombers when it comes to heavy ships and that Torpedo Bombers are more effective against the lighter ones. This is me considering the payload of the bombs dropped by Dive Bombers to be heavier than the torpedoes carried by Torpedo Bombers since torpedoes still need to be propelled to their targets while being light enough to be carried as opposed to the bombs just being dropped as is.

Ah I see, fair enough. Though having said that you want a Saiun in there, I thought you only need 1 per fleet, if you have 2 CV then you should have a CV with red and blue in? Unless you use 3x Green + Saiun then 3x Green + Blue/Red as a set up? I generally use 2x Green + Blue and Red with a 2x Green + Yellow + Blue/Red for normal purpose unless I've been suggested otherwise, its my standard Akagi + Kaga set up if they're both in my team, which is pretty much the same as your set up actually.

 

[Icchan]

Ah I see, fair enough. Though having said that you want a Saiun in there, I thought you only need 1 per fleet, if you have 2 CV then you should have a CV with red and blue in? Unless you use 3x Green + Saiun then 3x Green + Blue/Red as a set up? I generally use 2x Green + Blue and Red with a 2x Green + Yellow + Blue/Red for normal purpose unless I've been suggested otherwise, its my standard Akagi + Kaga set up if they're both in my team, which is pretty much the same as your set up actually.

As I've mentioned in my previous post

My Akagi+Kaga setup looks like this:

Akagi:
20 Tenzan Model 12(Tomonaga Squadron)
20 Reppu
32 Reppu (601 Air Group)
10 Saiun

Kaga:
20 Suisei(Egusa Squadron)
20 Reppu
46 Reppu Kai
12 Ryuusei (601 Air Group)

Though in rare cases where I can use more Bombers, I bring out the Type 2 Recon Aircraft on Kaga so that I'll have more firepower.

 

[moemoe-kyun]

@Icchan I agree with you. The torpedo bomber often eliminate enemy DD rather than BB even equip on higher slot. And bring the Type 2 may be more effective because it often make contact and increase damage.

@King I think it depend on how many Fighter Power to get AS or AS+. I often bring enough green to get AS and few times AS+ and fill the other slots with red/blue/yellow. That way, i think CV is more effective in Aerial combat ( eliminate/damage few enemies ) and have good damage in shelling phase. But if the enemy has very high FP then put the red in lowest slot and fill with green in other slot is acceptable ( Hoppo >.< )

[MENTION=65000]ancer_nyaa[/MENTION]; I think you should read more on http://kancolle.wikia.com/wiki/Combat . It will provide a good information about Aerial Combat although it's a bit difficult to understand >.<. Also there is Formula to calculate Fighter Power which is very important. Ah, you consume much beauxite because you didn't bring enough Fighter so the enemy shot down many of your aircraft ( i think 5 bauxite per 1 aircraft ). Archiving AS or AS+ will lower the number of lost. If the enemy doesn't have Fighter, your aircraft will still be shot down by AA defense but just few.

Edit: Oh yes they will use 3 tier difficulty again. Getting new girls will be easier. :D

 

[ancer_nyaa]

@Icchan I agree with you. The torpedo bomber often eliminate enemy DD rather than BB even equip on higher slot. And bring the Type 2 may be more effective because it often make contact and increase damage.

@King I think it depend on how many Fighter Power to get AS or AS+. I often bring enough green to get AS and few times AS+ and fill the other slots with red/blue/yellow. That way, i think CV is more effective in Aerial combat ( eliminate/damage few enemies ) and have good damage in shelling phase. But if the enemy has very high FP then put the red in lowest slot and fill with green in other slot is acceptable ( Hoppo >.< )

[MENTION=65000]ancer_nyaa[/MENTION]; I think you should read more on http://kancolle.wikia.com/wiki/Combat . It will provide a good information about Aerial Combat although it's a bit difficult to understand >.<. Also there is Formula to calculate Fighter Power which is very important. Ah, you consume much beauxite because you didn't bring enough Fighter so the enemy shot down many of your aircraft ( i think 5 bauxite per 1 aircraft ). Archiving AS or AS+ will lower the number of lost. If the enemy doesn't have Fighter, your aircraft will still be shot down by AA defense but just few.

Edit: Oh yes they will use 3 tier difficulty again. Getting new girls will be easier. :D

Thank you very much, I read it. It was really helpful

 

[Shinseph]

Yet another Kai in my fleet. She and samidare are always getting critical on the first node....

Spoiler: Suzukaze Kai

hehe tooltip​​​​



Edit: Another Kai this morning.

Spoiler: Souryuu Kai

 

[ecael]

A bunch of things looked very wrong with the last few posts with carrier plane usage lol.

EDIT -
Lets start with the basic formulas so we are on the same page.
Shelling (Carriers) = (Firepower + Torpedo) × 1.5 + Dive Bomb × 2 + 55
Opening Air Strike = (Bomber's Dive Bomb or Torpedo stat) × √(Number of Planes) + 25

For the purposes of opening air strike, dive bombers have a 1x attack modifier on the value yielded, and torpedo planes have 2 possible attack modifiers. 150% and 80%, proccing at a 50/50 chance. It should also be noted that the damage is calculated on a per-slot basis and handled separately. Also, the value used are in real time, which takes into account the losses from surface and air based AA.

The air superiority formula is basically the same as the air strike formula, but calculations there are done as: Sum of (Plane's AA value) × √(Number of Planes). This applies to all non-recon planes with an AA value. Unlike the case with air strike values, the sum of the entire fleet's planes are used for this value.

Let's go into more specifics now that the basic calculation methods are out of the way.

Dive Bombers are your most reliable source of damage when it's Shelling Phase. These planes are the 2nd least shot down plane amongst the 3 combat planes and have a reliable rate of damage.

Torpedo Bombers have an advantage over the Dive Bombers when it comes to the Preemptive Aerial Bombing phase but the damage is dependent on the planes you have left. These planes are the most shot down planes amongst the 3 combat planes. These planes have a chance of becoming weaker or more powerful than Dive Bombers when it comes to damage.

There are no real differences between the two in terms of being shot down. While it has been said since the start of the game that torpedo bombers seems to suffer heavier casualties, there hasn't been anything to support that theory.

As you can see from the formulas, the advantage that torpedo bombers have over divebombers is the higher expected value in preemptive strikes. The crit component is particularly important when we consider the overall low damage from preemptive strikes, as the value derive here would then get ran through the basic combat damage formula where it needs to pierce through defenses. As mentioned later on, torpedo bombers crits are the only way to really punch through heavier armored enemies effectively simply due to the crit component.

Divebombers, on the other hand, have a higher multiplier when used for shelling phase. Although if we consider the differences between the best planes available from development, the difference is not as distinct (19.5 vs 20 for ryuusei kai vs Suisei Model 12A). For the most part, the difference noted is most applicable toward carrier setups for support fleets, particularly if you are capable of mass producing the Ekusa planes.

What should be remembered here are two things. First, the damage for preemptive strike is calculated per slot, there are no benefits to stacking one type of plane over the other. Which also highlights the weakness to armor due to the low values produced. The second is the fact that carriers have a free +55 for shelling calculations as well as a 1.5x base atk boost. As they have no yasen capability, it is fairly easy to aim for the 150 daytime damage softcap since the carriers are going around with 90~110 base atk effectively, well beyond any base values for non-Yamatos.

Fighters are your main source of Fighter Power and is pretty much where most of your plane count would go. These guys get shot down the least amongst the 3 combat planes if I recall right.

As fighters are not damaged by surface AA, they are indeed the ones with least casualties.

I am not going to rehash the benefits of air superiority and how to calculate levels of it as everyone seems to know that already. Instead, I'll cover plane kill rate as a result of air-based AA. AS+ results in 0~90% planes shot down, AS 0~80%, parity 0~60%, incapability 0~40%, and denial 0~10%. The losses are applied to both sides using the equivalent state that they would be in, so effectively keeping AS+ would have plane losses, per plane slot, at 10% max.

This in combination of the fact that preempt damage are calculated in real time puts us at a dilemma. In order to do damage with preempt, we need plane counts. In order to sustain that plane count to do anything, we need fighter planes. The saving grace is that for easier areas we can get away with running multiple bomber slots with the relatively high value of AA that reppuu provides. But for those areas, those of us with access to the more niche equipment in experience flight crew would be using that over any planes simply due to the power of carriers attacking at long range and early on in attack order.

So with all that in mind, let's tackle some of the questions and answers.

Back in the time when I tried to prepare for AL/MI I was asking people on the English wikia, a few of the more experience TTK told me that blues are really only effective against anything below CL Flag, if it is anything higher they generally don't really do much damage and you're better off to go red instead. Is that true or its just a myth?

If I recall right, the reason why Dive Bombers is usually better than Torpedo Bombers is because they directly tap into the firepower of the ship while Torpedo Bombers only use the torpedo stat which the planes come with. Generally, the idea would be to use BOTH Dive Bomber and Torpedo Bomber so that the damage output of your Aircraft Carrier would be the combination of both rather than just one. But as far as I can tell, that's pretty hard to do nowadays since Fighter>Torpedo/Dive Bomber and you need at least on slot for the Saiun.

That is incorrect, and the original answer from the English wikia also mixed a bunch of information up. As we can see from the damage calculation formula, preemptive air strike damage expectation is fairly low. This in conjunction with the fact that the number derived then needs to pierce through enemy armor naturally leads to the conclusion that blue planes are necessary to pierce through higher armor. But neither blue nor red would be able to reliably get through higher armor, the former because crit is RNG (and base off a low value), and the latter simply not high enough.

The usage of red over blue, as shown earlier, has no real difference in the effectiveness during shelling phase. We do not need to use blue to gain the firepower*1.5 bonus, that is already factored in. As a result, the prevalent use of Red is simply due to the ridiculous stats offered by Ekusa planes and the +4aa fighter-bombers' addition toward AA values, effectively throwing the use of carriers.

There is one more specific consideration for the kind of planes to use, which is the inability for torpedo weapons to hit base structures like Hoppou. This has led to certain setups for 3-5 like carriers only carrying blue in order to perform cleanup on the sidekicks for Hoppou while the 3shiki ships will focus their hits on Hoppou.

Personally, I still think that using Dive Bombers as it is would be better than Torpedo Bombers when it comes to heavy ships and that Torpedo Bombers are more effective against the lighter ones. This is me considering the payload of the bombs dropped by Dive Bombers to be heavier than the torpedoes carried by Torpedo Bombers since torpedoes still need to be propelled to their targets while being light enough to be carried as opposed to the bombs just being dropped as is.

This isn't WoWs >.> I think the carriers there run more torpedos than divebombs atm?

Ah I see, fair enough. Though having said that you want a Saiun in there, I thought you only need 1 per fleet, if you have 2 CV then you should have a CV with red and blue in? Unless you use 3x Green + Saiun then 3x Green + Blue/Red as a set up? I generally use 2x Green + Blue and Red with a 2x Green + Yellow + Blue/Red for normal purpose unless I've been suggested otherwise, its my standard Akagi + Kaga set up if they're both in my team, which is pretty much the same as your set up actually.

What you should run ultimately depends on the AA values that you need to hit for that map, that will dictate where most of your slots go. Afterwards will be the special considerations like blue for 3-5 Hoppo route or long/medium range to facilitate farming. The rest is really just whatever has high numbers that you need.

Though in rare cases where I can use more Bombers, I bring out the Type 2 Recon Aircraft on Kaga so that I'll have more firepower.

We kind of went this whole way without covering this particular mechanic, but I guess it isn't bad to minmax that either. Contact from your recon planes will increase damage dealt, and the damage scales with the +acc on the plane performing contact. When contact is triggered, one plane among all eligible planes will be used at random to determine the bonus modifier. Of all the planes, type-2 recon has the higher acc and has a naturally high contact rate for being a carrier based recon plane. The downside of that over Saiun is the fact that type-2 does not remove T disadvantages. The usage of type-2 over Saiun should take all that into consideration. The advantages of running multiple carrier based recon planes in a fleet, when given the high use of seaplanes, is almost non-existent.

I think this should do, ask questions if you have any, but try to keep them specific. What would be best though would be to just sit down and actually look at the combat section on the wiki for a while to get a better idea.

 

[KingArturia]

A bunch of things looked very wrong with the last few posts with carrier plane usage lol.

Care to enlighten us then?

 

[Shinseph]

At this rate murakumo won't make 70 by the update...2-3 levels short by my estimate...

 

[moemoe-kyun]

I'm still waiting for her kai ni art and equipment before decide leveling her or not :D.

 

[KingArturia]

Noshino Kai :3 Bisko is at 65, so she's getting Drei soon, Murakumo is at 68, closing into 69 so I should have it ready by Friday if not shortly after.

 

[Shir0]

Done. Maybe Fubuki next?

 

[ecael]

1-6 probably going to roll out for this week's maint, maybe we'll have hints on the event with this.

 

[KingArturia]

1-6 probably going to roll out for this week's maint, maybe we'll have hints on the event with this.

Seems like Dev gave extra warning if those going for the hard mode, they should prepare well for it, I'm rather scared whether or not I've enough resource. Also what's the actual purpose of SCAMP? It seems like a lot of people are saying its really good but I'm not sure how I use SCAMP, what do you use it on? And I hope 1-6 isn't too hard and it gives medals.

 

[ecael]

Seems like Dev gave extra warning if those going for the hard mode, they should prepare well for it, I'm rather scared whether or not I've enough resource. Also what's the actual purpose of SCAMP? It seems like a lot of people are saying its really good but I'm not sure how I use SCAMP, what do you use it on? And I hope 1-6 isn't too hard and it gives medals.

If by scamp you are talking about the flight crew things, they are equipped on BBV/CAV/CV/CVL. The main purpose for them is the long range that comes with them, letting you change the attack order of carriers. While you could equip guns up to this point for medium range, long would put carrier priority up to BB levels, which is huge particularly when it comes to farming and grinding. 10atk also isn't bad at all, and provides a nice way of boosting CAV damage potential. They are pretty useless on BBVs though because all these good points are basically irrelevant to BB use.

No particular hints about 1-6 yet so we'll see tomorrow. No telling what they'll throw at us, but it'll be safe to say that the kind of content we find in 1-6 will probably be indicative of the theme of the event maps.

About hoarding...didn't you clear E5 on hard relatively easily last time? It was honestly a pretty luck based affair, so presumably we'll see this event be equally terror potentially. I had a friend blowing through 150kish worth of resources and still failed for hard clear, so yeah~

 

[Shinseph]

My Murakumo is 62...I'm hoping I can hit 70 before bed...she will be my first Kai Ni.

4 more kai in my fleet!!!

Spoiler: Akatsuki Kai

Spoiler: Ikazuchi Kai

Spoiler: Inazuma Kai

Spoiler: Ooi Kai