What do you think about BL elements appearing in otome works?

[ninnikuryona]

just for the sake of curiosity, why would even a background character who's gay/bi be a negative thing...? actually i'm not sure if i should be asking this since it seems like a subject that gets people pretty inflamed and i don't want the backlash lol but i'm not asking this maliciously, i want to understand what the thought process behind this distaste.

ill speak for myself only and as a bisexual: i dont want them even on side roles because they feel like they derail the whole "conversation" so to speak. otome is a gxb genre, so why would i want to see a man who is attracted to other men? especially if he frequently interacts with the main cast. it just feels like he will overshadow any kind of heroine x li relationship, especially in the west, because Woah Progression!! Lets Ship Him With Every Single Male Character Under The Sun!! either that, or theyre usually executed in a. very. very. veryveryveryvery annoying way. case in point: hugo

if anything, if you want to add a bisexual character to your otome, wouldnt it be better to have a female bisexual character instead? since otome as a whole is a genre for women and about women? im not saying that there should be more yuri routes or anything (this is a completely separate topic), but if you want to explore someones' struggles, in a genre aimed at women and told from female perspective, wouldnt it make more sense to use a female character for this?

 

[lambdadelta]

ill speak for myself only and as a bisexual: i dont want them even on side roles because they feel like they derail the whole "conversation" so to speak. otome is a gxb genre, so why would i want to see a man who is attracted to other men? especially if he frequently interacts with the main cast. it just feels like he will overshadow any kind of heroine x li relationship, especially in the west, because Woah Progression!! Lets Ship Him With Every Single Male Character Under The Sun!! either that, or theyre usually executed in a. very. very. veryveryveryvery annoying way. case in point: hugo

if anything, if you want to add a bisexual character to your otome, wouldnt it be better to have a female bisexual character instead? since otome as a whole is a genre for women and about women? im not saying that there should be more yuri routes or anything (this is a completely separate topic), but if you want to explore someones' struggles, in a genre aimed at women and told from female perspective, wouldnt it make more sense to use a female character for this?

i see, thank you for replying. i guess i was thinking something more along the lines of 'lgbt people exist and it's nice to just see them casually existing even if i wasn't actively searching for a work where they're featured' like carmen from bustafellows, for example. but i didn't bring her up bc since she's a woman, i thought it was a different matter and didn't want to mix them up.

edit: forgot to mention i'm also lgbt but that's already pretty obvious i think LOL

 

[Violetta19]

I'm okay with it.

 

[Kyouri]

I am not very active member in either of these, so I am not sure what is actually acceptable or not. I would like to see honestly some "slack" from both sides tbh. It's like any ML in BL suddenly turns gay even when he was with women in past. Like hello? Bisexuality exists and I appreciate a lot when BL authors do not fear it.

in this case, it was an established long running "otome" series and MC basically gets NTR and there was no proper warning/tags and I think established fans of the series/characters had every right to be upset. If they wanted to do a scenario like this, it would have made more sense imo to make a new series with new characters and have proper categories in place beforehand...

 

[kyoko867578]

I really dislike it. I feel that otome and BL should stay separate. Just because a game is for women doesn't mean we all enjoy the same things. Genres exist for a reason, and I prefer it when games stick to their own category.

 

[qixianxiaomiao]

If you add BL elements to an otome work, it can no longer be called an otome work. Conversely, if you add otome elements to a BL work, it can no longer be called a BL work. I think this is a very niche genre that shouldn't be exposed to the general public... It pleases neither otome fans nor BL fans.

 

[xyssxyss]

even as a friend who I can't date with, it wouldn't feel quite right; but if it were a stranger I met at an event or an acquaintance I don't know very well, that would be okay.

 

[sylviawwww]

Ermm… I don't really mind as long as not NTR

 

[Aerith]

I love bisexual characters, but BL in otome games isn't a good idea unless the romance is between secondary characters. People who play otome games, in general, don't really like love interests being interested in someone else. And in my case, since I don't self-insert and just read romance because I like shipping, it would end up breaking my heart, because I love BL, and I know it's never going to happen if one of them (or both) are LIs lol.

 

[cinderella]

dont like it, if i want to play a bl i would play a bl otome is niche enough

 

[ninnikuryona]

speaking of, is there anyone in this thread who has read latest utapri titles? i heard theres a lot of yaoi bait in debut, but im not knowledgeable enough since i dont wanna touch the game that betrayed its audience. so, can someone vouch for it? also, what do you all think about dolce vita?

 

[iofel]

I don't really mind small jokes or side interactions, but personally I play otome for the romance between the MC and the LIs, so I prefer when the focus stays there lol. If the BL stuff starts overshadowing the MC or feels like fanservice bait, then big no...

 

[satory]

what do you all think about dolce vita?

I think people will colonise Mars sooner than it's coming out. Isn't it called Vita because it was supposed to be a PS Vita game?

 

[ninnikuryona]

I think people will colonise Mars sooner than it's coming out. Isn't it called Vita because it was supposed to be a PS Vita game?

yea lol i think so! but they already announced that the game is being developed for switch now. i think they even showed a new pv in january? dont know much about it though

 

[fr4pp3cinn]

yea lol i think so! but they already announced that the game is being developed for switch now. i think they even showed a new pv in january? dont know much about it though

I saw the teaser when it came out, it barely has any visuals! It shows like 5 seconds of one character 3D model. No art, no sprites, no dialogue, no mention of MC... I'd say it's going for the joseimuke route (and it was 30 seconds! For a game that's "on development" for 10 whole years! I have more faith in Rejet launching Dorico than a new otoge UtaPri lmao)

It doesn't even have a estimated release date (not even year!) and they commented it was being worked on for the Switch in like 2023, but announced again this year... I have my doubts that it will really come out ;b

 

[ninnikuryona]

no mention of MC...

ohhh thats nasty. if theyre struggling to rewrite their shitty script to exclude haruka then its better to just never release this game at all lolol
i know theyre fully focused on their mobile games and yaoi bait nowadays, but like. why not just cancel the development? are there even old fans who are still excited for it?

 

[O cha]

Personally, I don't really mind if there are BL elements in otome games—I don't particularly love or hate it. But I know this can be a pretty sensitive topic for a lot of otome players, and many people here have already said they're not a fan of it. So honestly, it's probably best for game companies to just leave BL elements out. If they really want to include them, they should at least give us a heads-up beforehand. Selling the game without any warning honestly feels like a betrayal to the fans.

 

[kazis]

I think it was a trend at some point (?) to add a girl as a LI to otome Never heard about BL in an otome though. How would that even work? Like, a LI is bi and had a bf at some point?..
I think I'm not opposed to the MC in otome having a gay brother/friend, but with the condition: I won't see a lot of his love life (and I won't give them my precious cgs!) and he won't, in any way, mess with the LIs. Like, it's okay if the mc and her gay brother/friend talk about stuff and help each other with advice maybe, it's sweet, but noooo jokes like "I will take him, if you won't" or straight up ending together in a different route Pls no.
About otome elements in BL. For some reason, I'm less opposed here. But for an actual example - I know only Slow Damage tried to do something like that (with the MC's backstory, that is). Having a girl as a potential LI still feels weird, because - why?..

 

[ninnikuryona]

Never heard about BL in an otome though. How would that even work? Like, a LI is bi and had a bf at some point?..

this actually happened in a game at some point! specifically romance md by voltage. one of the lis is bisexual, and you spend a good chunk of the route discussing him and his previous boyfriend for whatever reason
but yeah there are several examples, like h*go in virche, sharaku's backstory where he specifically mentioned prostituting himself for women and men in the past in tengoku struggle, homura with "fated mates" in one of the routes, some bullshit in kamigami no asobi and probably many more:(

 

[kazis]

this actually happened in a game at some point! specifically romance md by voltage. one of the lis is bisexual, and you spend a good chunk of the route discussing him and his previous boyfriend for whatever reason
but yeah there are several examples, like h*go in virche, sharaku's backstory where he specifically mentioned prostituting himself for women and men in the past in tengoku struggle, homura with "fated mates" in one of the routes, some bullshit in kamigami no asobi and probably many more:(

HUH. I didn't expect to see so many examples!
I don't know, I feel like a lot depends on how it's implemented in the story, but generally it feels weird for them to add bl in otome and vice versa... But I guess even discussing would be better than actually seeing it or dealing with it in this case?.. Virche is one of the top three otomes in my wishlist, so I'm avoiding spoilers for it for now I'll have to decide after I play it!

 

[ninnikuryona]

I don't know, I feel like a lot depends on how it's implemented in the story, but generally it feels weird for them to add bl in otome and vice versa...

i dont think "otome elements" in bl are even a thing, since the mcs in bl are always male, and its like. already the opposite of otome? ww also i cant really recall any yumejoshi fanservice with yaoi characters in merch or something like that. there are some examples of straight content in yaoi though, like madalabo titles for example. but togo mito, the dev, literally does whatever he wants to his games so i wouldnt say its a good example xd now otomate (virche & homura & tengoku struggle) on the other hand..

but anyway i do think that a female li in a bl would defeat the entire purpose of the genre. like, a yuri game with a male love interest is not yuri anymore, so its not any different for yaoi, right? i dont think theres anything wrong with genres having definitions and them staying separate overall.. there are so many wonderful bl titles, you dont have to shove it into otome too;-;
(also, there are apparently some bl titles that run the "im straight i love women this would feel better if it was with a girl" trope into the ground. velvet react, a bl gacha, died due to the ntr drama, but even before that they LOVED inserting these stupid fucking lines in literally every single dialogue for some reason, which im guessing didnt help their case at all)

 

[kazis]

but anyway i do think that a female li in a bl would defeat the entire purpose of the genre. like, a yuri game with a male love interest is not yuri anymore, so its not any different for yaoi, right? i dont think theres anything wrong with genres having definitions and them staying separate overall.. there are so many wonderful bl titles, you dont have to shove it into otome too;-;

yeahhh... I agree that it's better to separate the two to avoid unpleasant situations

Now that I think about it, I feel like the problem is mostly the betrayed expectations. Because, if a visual novel presents itself as something "different", "unusual" from the start, I feel like people who wouldn't want to experience something unexpected won't even bother with it, while people who would, will come prepared. On the other hand, if you're ready, with snacks and all, to dive into potentially awesome new otome you found, and you get... not otome experience, it just ruins everything.
I just wanted to say, it's probably important to experiment and try out different things, but it'd be better if they'd announce it in advance. In some way.

 

[ninnikuryona]

Now that I think about it, I feel like the problem is mostly the betrayed expectations. Because, if a visual novel presents itself as something "different", "unusual" from the start, I feel like people who wouldn't want to experience something unexpected won't even bother with it, while people who would, will come prepared. On the other hand, if you're ready, with snacks and all, to dive into potentially awesome new otome you found, and you get... not otome experience, it just ruins everything.
I just wanted to say, it's probably important to experiment and try out different things, but it'd be better if they'd announce it in advance. In some way.

thats totally true!! if they at least communicated this prior to selling their works, there would be way less questions. though i guess they still would be expected to not use the "otome" label specifically w, but like, people only learned about the h*go stuff when they already bought the game (and the stellaworth artbook, where his crush was confirmed to be romantic, further enraging the audience naturally), and with garumani, the infamous bl audio was well into the series, when people already spent a shitton of their hard-earned monies! but this one is just a scummy situation all around. neither were stated to have bl elements since the very beginning, so of course people felt scammed! i would feel just as pissed if i opened up a bl game just to then watch the boys waste the entire screentime gushing over girls.. or the same but with yuri (though this is its own can of worms sadly).. like;-;

 

[kazis]

but this one is just a scummy situation all around. neither were stated to have bl elements since the very beginning, so of course people felt scammed!

That's the worst They def knew some people wouldn't buy it if they knew what's in store for them, so it totally feels like a scam.
I guess something could be said about "plot twists", but like... you really shouldn't make a plot twist out of that, it would be the worst
I remember how pissed I was when the main plot twist in one of the vns was that this one character that you liked is just the mc's imagination lol And something tells me I would actually throw my pc out of the window the second I find out the "big secret" behind this LI in a otome is that he's actually into men, just couldn't tell you haha ().

 

[ninnikuryona]

I remember how pissed I was when the main plot twist in one of the vns was that this one character that you liked is just the mc's imagination lol

damn LMAO i feel like this wouldve worked in denpa (the genre) but a romance-focused otome is.. a bit harsh;;;;
whats the name btw?