What do you think about gender selection in otome games?

[osanajimimi]

I think it's mostly Western audiences trying to redefine what an otome game is. By definition, it's a story told from the perspective of a female protagonist. If you change that and leave the protagonist's gender ambiguous, it becomes an amare game instead.

For a long time, women have fought to have content made for them under the joseimuke umbrella. Otome is one part of joseimuke, alongside genres like BL, although each has its own primary audience.

That doesn't mean men can't enjoy otome games, just as women can enjoy danseimuke content. The issue isn't who plays them. It's respecting the boundaries of each genre instead of trying to redefine them after they've already established their identity and community.

If someone wants games with a customizable or gender-neutral protagonist, dating sims or amare games already fill that role. It makes more sense to support the growth of those genres than to change the definition of otome.

I think the best way to reduce unnecessary arguments is to use the correct labels. As otome games have become more mainstream, clear terminology helps people find the content they're looking for without creating constant debates over what an otome game is.

 

[ninnikuryona]

For a long time, women have fought to have content made for them under the joseimuke umbrella. Otome is one part of joseimuke, alongside genres like BL, although each has its own primary audience.

very beautifully said! this part is especially important, since people of the west seem to believe for some reason that women have already gained all their rights and privileges, which is why theyre certain its allowed to rewrite the definition of the entire genre (which they had no hand in creating mind you). not to be that friend whos too woke or anything, but i feel like erasing a FEMALE mc in a genre aimed at FEMALE audiences is like, an insanely misogynistic behaviour. this is why otome girlies are fine with yuri in otome (in moderate quantities that is, so no 1:1 or 1:2 or even 1:3), but not bl, despite both otome and bl aiming for female audiences. yes the target audience for both are women, but women are not that huge monolith that loves EVERYTHING, right? personal preferences are always present in every single one of us! and thats not bad at all!

(coming back to the original question, i for one LOVE watching the story unfold through the eyes of a FEMALE protagonist, and i love lis interacting with her and treating her like a woman. a girl. a female human being. aka something amare never provide. this is the beauty of otome as a whole!!)

 

[pepsinig]

I don't like them, I'm very picky with those games where you can choose your pronoums or gender, it must be incredibly interesting for me to try one.
And the reason I dont really like them is because a gender neutral MC just with a set of pronoums added to them feels bland. Women and men are so different that we experience the world in totally distinct ways, its just feels so unatural and forced when a female and a male mc receive the exact same reactions or dialogue from the love interest or secondary characters, if they put additional content or flavor text to accomapin the ender your choose then good, but no, they are all the same, just a pronoum swap.

 

[kazis]

Ohhhh, it's exactly the topic I was looking for!
The gender selection feature is nice on paper, but what it usually does is erase any speck of femininity, in my opinion.
It especially irritates me in games where there's a protagonist with "ambiguous" gender. No, they're not. It's your typical man in male clothing. Why not give them a skirt, huh? Why not? It would look cool, pretty, unusual. Why not make their features and physic gentler, smaller? Why not add them some spark? And it's not about how all girls are supposed to be nice, cute and gentle. It's just that these protagonists are soooo obviously male-coded (lol). You can't give me that and tell me to pretend it could be anyone. It's the issue similar to what Arisara was talking about and I completely agree.

In story-focused games (otome), there's also problem with how MC is treated. I think it would be more nuanced and interesting if characters reacted slightly differently depending on your MC's gender. It's probably nice for some people to imagine that the attitude won't change because of your sex. So I guess there's need for games like these too. But honestly... isn't a story more interesting when it's socially-nuanced and not just safe gray area? And if we're talking about typical visual novel situations... I don't know, for example, let's imagine our MC had to go home late. The potential LI waved his good-bye... and stopped. "It's dangerous so late at night, I'll walk you till the station". Kya! Okay, but why would he say that to the male MC? Once again, it's not that men can't be victims of robbery or whatnot. It just doesn't have the same message. It implies the LI sees the MC as "weaker male". The whole dynamic should change! >< The writers should at least make the dialogue a bit different then here, in my opinion.

Anyway, maybe it's just "trauma" about being "left aside" almost everywhere in the "main stream". But it really irks me when there's a gender option in otome, and only pronouns and portrait are changed. It feels like an erasure, even if it sounds over-dramatic lol

It was nice reading all the comments and hearing different opinions.


Side-note. I really liked how the topic of gender and femininity was handled in "Psychedelica of the Ashen Hawk". Not perfect, but it was so sweet seeing how the MC, who is pretending to be a man, discovers her femininity while not erasing her identity I was so touched by it.

Side-note 2. Not so long ago, I actually was searching for an RPG game similar to Dragon Quest, but with a female protagonist and some "otome fanservice" if possible haha. Obviously, I haven't found much. I found "Ara Fell" which I'm playing right now. And many have suggested me "The Legend of Heroes - Trails in the Sky". There's also "Tales of Berseria". Oh, I think there's also "The Silent Kingdom", but I haven't played it yet. So, the market really could use some female protagonists in different genres lol They still have quota to fill.
Sorry for the long post and a bit of de-railing and thank you for an interesting topic

 

[fr4pp3cinn]

Although gender-selection is nice in theory, I don't like mixing up a lot of labels under "otome", as I like the genre because I enjoy stories from female perspectives

Another thing about it is, very often it's not implemented well. Most gender-neutral romance VNs I've played seem to either have a specific gender in mind for the MC (so when you choose other options, it seems dissonant or poorly implemented), or sacrifice MC characterization to remain as neutral as possible (and I get that those games specifically want to appeal to self-inserters, but sometimes the MC is so much of a blank slate, I think it's hard to even do that). It's also pretty noticeable when small developers (or even solo developers) have a hard time fleshing out the different options for the MC, often because they lack time or budget

And the thing is, I myself would (and do!) play games with non-binary/male MCs, and I'd say many fans of romance VNs would support those games as well, even if they didn't promote themselves as otoge. Using the "otome" tag for gender-neutral MCs can actually annoy some fans of the genre :(

Another thing I often notice with neutral MCs is how they don't really have friends outside the LIs, or they have big friend groups, but aren't really close to any particular ones. I don't know why it happens, but one detail I always enjoyed in traditional slice of life otoge is how the MCs will have one or two best friends who are pretty close (although I've played some gender-neutral games that do have MCs with nice friendships!)

I personally would enjoy more otoge with trans women and women of color as MCs instead of gender-selection, from a diversity standpoint. And outside of otoge, I'd also prefer games that commit to the protagonist, such as a romance VN with an actual non-binary MC, instead of a superficial gender-selection that doesn't really reflect their experiences

(Unpopular opinion, but I don't really enjoy the term "amare" lol maybe because some spaces that go by "amare game" seem kinda... judgemental of BL/otome/yuri as labels? Like how they define the other genres as restrictive or superficial because they are "just about the MCs gender"... but that's just me ;b)

 

[Fruitcup]

Otome is inherently made for female mcs romancing male li if you want to play has a male mc theres a ton of great bl you can load up. That being said I wouldn't mind a gender neutral option.

 

[ninnikuryona]

(Unpopular opinion, but I don't really enjoy the term "amare" lol maybe because some spaces that go by "amare game" seem kinda... judgemental of BL/otome/yuri as labels? Like how they define the other genres as restrictive or superficial because they are "just about the MCs gender"... but that's just me ;b)

thats probably because those for whom this term was created usually despise otome as a whole..;-; since most amare fans either treat it as "fixed" otome genre (because its not hetslop anymore) or use it to create more bl, just "wokely" (because lets be honest most amare are written from a male mc's perspective even if you choose female protagonist option. doesnt help that fandoms for these games are riddled with bl either between mc and lis or lis and lis as well)

 

[B539]

"It implies the LI sees the MC as "weaker male"

I'm sorry but this is not true. When my sister walks me home it's not because I'm the "weaker female". It's because she loves me and wants to make sure I get home safe.
The LI is doing it for the same reason. Or he wans to spend more time with MC.

If the LI is someone who likes to walk his lovers home/to the station then there's no reason why he should change his personality based on the gender of his lover.

 

[kazis]

The LI is doing it for the same reason. Or he wans to spend more time with MC.

You know, that's fair.. My example wasn't good, I think I had in mind very specific types of characters, so it immediately narrowed my view.
I'll have to think more about whether there even is a fitting example

 

[fraizumin]

I don't mind it, I often pick non-binary option if it's possible!

The only downside for me that I often noticed when playing is that MC is usually faceless and doesn't have visual appearance (gods i love seeing MC on CG).

 

[woodypei]

I'm fine with it only if it makes the male female MC distinction clearly. Like in the case you mentioned OP, it seems to me they made a male MC and only slapped on a half assed female MC appearance to be able to appeal to a different audience. It doesn't make sense for a woman to be able to nonchalantly bath in a river naked with 3 other men!! If they wanted that to happen, at least make up a convincing scenario.