Thought's On LI Sexuality Headcannon ?

[hib]

Just Saw A Drama Explode On Twitter When Just Looking For Fanart On Head Cannoning Otome Characters Guys ! It Devolved Into Homophobia / Transphobia Name Calling Cesspool , It's Twitter , What Do You Expect ? ? ? ? It's Crazy , So I Want To Know Everyone's Thoughts .

Mine Is Just I Don't Like It And I Just Don't Care , Just Block It . . .

I Don't Really Even Think About Sexuality Or Gender Identity In This Stuff Unless The Story Revolves Around It , I Just See Characters As MC - Sexual LOL ~
I Don't Like LI X LI or Any Non MC X LI Shipping In Any Romance Games In General , But I Can Move On With My Day Ignoring It . . . . . . . . .
Honestly , It's Only A Problem When It Goes Into The Game And Changes The Genre , But Fans Should Be Free To Share Opinions Together .
My Only Rule Is Tag Your Stuff Properly , It Will Stop A Lot Of Fan Wars . . . . . . .

 

[MikuMikuni]

The quoted post about that harmless question was the first one I saw. I read through their replies and was like ??? even itchio games caught a stray for no reason ??? then it all spiraled and then a lot of tweets about it appeared on the timeline. It honestly doesn't bother me, people can headcanon what they want. Personally haven't ever thought about LI x LI shipping but whenever I see posts about it, I just go, "Ooh that's cute. I can see that." But that's really it lol, I just move on after seeing it. I still find it wild that such a niche community like ours gets into a fight almost about everything. I mean it is increasing every year but still small enough to recognize most active people within it

 

[shuubaruotaku]

aslong as it doesn't hurt people, i dont see an issue with sexuality hcs?

 

[ninnikuryona]

i dont see why this should be discussed in the open. otome games are gxb for the player, aka a woman, to selfinsert into, so why would you fantasize about which character actually loves men as well? i just dont see the appeal
and mind you, this never happens with galge. probably because galge players know full well that all girls are attracted to the protagonist/the player only

 

[Foxgloves]

I think Twitter's a weird metric for drama because the average drama there is something like

Person A: hmm what if <character> was <transgender/bi/gay/poly/etc>
Person B: well, they aren't.
Everyone: Oh yeah?! Well, then why aren't they??? So you hate women AND minorities!

I don't know why this particular discussion keeps getting repeated. I'm not going to say that galge communities are drama-free, but the drama there has VERY different points of discussion.

 

[ninnikuryona]

I don't know why this particular discussion keeps getting repeated. I'm not going to say that galge communities are drama-free, but the drama there has VERY different points of discussion.

galge communitys main (almost only) concern is lack of r18 titles being released with each passing year. which is valid unfortunately, because everything is either a gacha or censored to the bone

 

[orionsbestie]

Just Saw A Drama Explode On Twitter When Just Looking For Fanart On Head Cannoning Otome Characters Guys ! It Devolved Into Homophobia / Transphobia Name Calling Cesspool , It's Twitter , What Do You Expect ? ? ? ? It's Crazy , So I Want To Know Everyone's Thoughts .

Mine Is Just I Don't Like It And I Just Don't Care , Just Block It . . .

I Don't Really Even Think About Sexuality Or Gender Identity In This Stuff Unless The Story Revolves Around It , I Just See Characters As MC - Sexual LOL ~
I Don't Like LI X LI or Any Non MC X LI Shipping In Any Romance Games In General , But I Can Move On With My Day Ignoring It . . . . . . . . .
Honestly , It's Only A Problem When It Goes Into The Game And Changes The Genre , But Fans Should Be Free To Share Opinions Together .
My Only Rule Is Tag Your Stuff Properly , It Will Stop A Lot Of Fan Wars . . . . . . .

My only headcanon is that every LI is me/mc-sexual only lol

 

[satory]

Why is there drama everywhere People lost not only reading comprehension skill, but a skill to ignore things too. And that's all while there is an ignore button on every site no less.

and mind you, this never happens with galge. probably because galge players know full well that all girls are attracted to the protagonist/the player only

Is yuri bait not a thing anymore? Are girls in MC's harem not getting with each other in recent years? We are losing ancient texts, quick someone make a game out of 100girlfriends

 

[ninnikuryona]

Is yuri bait not a thing anymore? Are girls in MC's harem not getting with each other in recent years? We are losing ancient texts, quick someone make a game out of 100girlfriends

recent yuribait in galge is only a thing in nekopara im afraid:( but thats a vn where everyone loves everyone so. kinda expected

 

[osanajimimi]

I directly ignore and mute, I don't know if they have been in the fandom for a long time or not, but it really is a hassle. In that sense, you are free to make your lists, but at the same time you deal with otome, where is focused on LI's interest with MC, or most het unless otherwise stated, it's expected to escalate for those who like self-insert or prefer MC. Why make drama out of this? I think that if more consideration were taken it would not happen

 

[801_9ma]

I think sexuality/gender HCs are always a bit of a prickly issue with some pieces of media when posted publicly, and I'm talking from the point of view of someone who just loves projecting things on his favorite characters like they're his Barbie dolls. Especially on social media like Twitter, where for some reason not having the same thoughts as someone else somehow makes you liable to moral failings.

Speaking of otome media specifically, I've sometimes entertained a few HCs here and there and I don't necessarily mind LI x LI, but it's not something I'm going to post publicly because everyone has different boundaries. Ultimately, I think people need to make a distinction between what's canon, AKA the stuff you see in-game and what the devs want you to see, and then the stuff that you're just doing for fun on the side. Going to war hailing your headcanons as canon is frankly stupid and goes against the spirit of HCs anyway, which should be "this is my thing for fun :)" and not "this is what I THINK and if YOU DON'T then you are [insert name here]". I also think it's common decency to tag your headcanons in an easily mutable / blacklistable format so that people who don't like sexuality/gender headcanon lists can simply keep scrolling without being exposed to them, the same way I'm begging people to please use tags properly for their fanart—like don't post LI x LI art in yume tags for example, are you crazy.

Overall, my attitude is pretty laissez-faire regarding HCs and fan content, just have decency towards your peers who don't vibe with it.

Turning headcanon debacle into drama sounds frankly exhausting, I think everyone should weaponize social media platforms' block and mute functions to have some peace of mind and enjoy the media they like the way they want to engage with it.

 

[ufoufufu]

i dont see why this should be discussed in the open. otome games are gxb for the player, aka a woman, to selfinsert into, so why would you fantasize about which character actually loves men as well? i just dont see the appeal
and mind you, this never happens with galge. probably because galge players know full well that all girls are attracted to the protagonist/the player only

Fair points but I'll be asking this in good faith: Do you really think "i don't see the appeal therefore it shouldn't be discussed in the open" is reliable reasoning we should be resorting to? Provided that people aren't talking about hypothetical boykisser boys in replies of someone who obviously doesn't want it

 

[ninnikuryona]

Fair points but I'll be asking this in good faith: Do you really think "i don't see the appeal therefore it shouldn't be discussed in the open" is reliable reasoning we should be resorting to? Provided that people aren't talking about hypothetical boykisser boys in replies of someone who obviously doesn't want it

thats not what i meant!! what i meant is "landmine topics are called landmines for a reason. you can discuss them, but dont do it out in the open". for otome, landmine is anything bl. bl ships, bl fics, bl discussions etc. no one is prohibiting you from doing this, BUT please keep it to their separate tags/locked accounts so that those who are not interested could avoid it !! this is normal for bl as well, because you wouldnt come into a bl space and start openly fantasizing about which male character would fuck a woman. in fact, wasnt there a girl who got bullied off the internet for daring to yumeship with a bl character? so yeah. fandom etiquette and all that

 

[ufoufufu]

thats not what i meant!! what i meant is "landmine topics are called landmines for a reason. you can discuss them, but dont do it out in the open". for otome, landmine is anything bl. bl ships, bl fics, bl discussions etc. no one is prohibiting you from doing this, BUT please keep it to their separate tags/locked accounts so that those who are not interested could avoid it !! this is normal for bl as well, because you wouldnt come into a bl space and start openly fantasizing about which male character would fuck a woman. in fact, wasnt there a girl who got bullied off the internet for daring to yumeship with a bl character? so yeah. fandom etiquette and all that

I guess I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit iffy on equating bisexuality solely to BL fanservice. Of course we don't live in an utopic world where companies include these elements out of the goodness of their hearts and it's unrealistic to expect them to, but in the realm of pure fantasy (and not actual game content), I understand yumes wanting their s/o to share their sexuality for example. Again, doesn't stop it from being a landmine I guess lol. I do think in many people's eyes bisexuality still equates to cheating manwhore but some people are just biased and content with that and a push for inclusion wouldn't fix that or realistically happen at all.

And yeah, tags benefit everyone from seekers to avoiders! I like that there's an unique punny 腐 tag for everything (that the west lacks...), but are people on the Eastern side (and I do mean genuine fanartists and not like. Garumani.) careless enough to not tag it? The that's a shame...About locked accounts, I think that's the sort of thing you do after you've already accumulated a likeminded following via the use of said tags, I don't blame people for wanting to connect to others.

Also, do you remember who that yumeshipper was/their yumeship? Honestly it feels like so many BL characters are bisexual or undefined (not that anyone should gaf about it when it comes to yume) so I'm curious whoch guy was it that people went to war over.... Then again they just don't care when they declare themselves righteous enough to harass others lol.

 

[ninnikuryona]

I guess I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit iffy on equating bisexuality solely to BL fanservice. Of course we don't live in an utopic world where companies include these elements out of the goodness of their hearts and it's unrealistic to expect them to, but in the realm of pure fantasy (and not actual game content), I understand yumes wanting their s/o to share their sexuality for example. Again, doesn't stop it from being a landmine I guess lol. I do think in many people's eyes bisexuality still equates to cheating manwhore but some people are just biased and content with that and a push for inclusion wouldn't fix that or realistically happen at all.

that i understand, but this is precisely why i dont understand why this question would be even asked. if a love interest's bisexuality is just theoretical, then why disclose it at all? experience shows that when someones bisexuality is stated outright, it usually means that this character WILL be shown to lust after both women and men. which is, naturally, not ideal for otome. especially after latest events with grmn and stuff
i dunno. maybe im not woke enough for that. im bisexual, but i would like love interests to be solely interested in the heroine/me, not other people, and especially not men. since, well, i can just boot up a bl game for that. and i love my bl!! (and id much rather them ask for yuri routes in otome, since it also can work as bisexuality representation)
also, wouldnt this be a good reason to research actual bisexual characters instead of forcing labels? though considering how people in fandoms treat actual bisexual characters (motoko from ghost in the shell for example. seen people being attacked by both straight shippers and yuri shippers over pointing out her bisexuality).. yea, i dont trust them on that ww

Also, do you remember who that yumeshipper was/their yumeship? Honestly it feels like so many BL characters are bisexual or undefined (not that anyone should gaf about it when it comes to yume) so I'm curious whoch guy was it that people went to war over.... Then again they just don't care when they declare themselves righteous enough to harass others lol.

that i cannot tell you, im sorry, since its been a couple of years ago. it mightve been a character from nukani? i think so at least
anyway yeah, i already mentioned that even canonically bisexual characters are being shoved into once singular box by everyone, which is just sad. on the brighter side though, amare seem to be coming out more and more! and they still have mostly male love interests. and, since most amare's mc's sex is unspecified, technically theyre all bisexual

 

[ufoufufu]

that i understand, but this is precisely why i dont understand why this question would be even asked. if a love interest's bisexuality is just theoretical, then why disclose it at all? experience shows that when someones bisexuality is stated outright, it usually means that this character WILL be shown to lust after both women and men. which is, naturally, not ideal for otome. especially after latest events with grmn and stuff

That's right and I think in many cases it's unnatural for a character to look at the screen and say "I'm bisexual" lol. Since we were discussing headcanons, I was thinking of scenarios where it's undisclosed that makes people come up with and bond over these interpretations. I think the most popular justifications I've seen are stuff like the guys in Kenka Banchou Otome or some other games being attracted to you regardless of your gender. Some people enjoy that as it makes them feel special but for others it's enough to gross them out. And the topic of exes as far as I've seen tend to be a landmine in itself so I get when they're not included at all, but there are people interested in thinking about that too. Or they do it just because they think it'd be cool who knows.

i dunno. maybe im not woke enough for that. im bisexual, but i would like love interests to be solely interested in the heroine/me, not other people, and especially not men. since, well, i can just boot up a bl game for that. and i love my bl!! (and id much rather them ask for yuri routes in otome, since it also can work as bisexuality representation)
also, wouldnt this be a good reason to research actual bisexual characters instead of forcing labels? though considering how people in fandoms treat actual bisexual characters (motoko from ghost in the shell for example. seen people being attacked by both straight shippers and yuri shippers over pointing out her bisexuality).. yea, i dont trust them on that ww

Thankfully I've never felt desperate enough to seek BL in otome but I think yuri is thrown under the bus in these discussions where people insist the genre is !!!heterosexual!!!!! (Then you check OPs profile they're whining about how Precure has gotten too woke or something, like clockwork.) I mean it technically is, as a result. But when fans and companies are discussing boundaries, I appreciate when the emphasis is on the whole premise of Heroine x LI instead, like you said ("especially not men" could raise question marks but who cares you do you lol) That's a very clear respectable rule that doesn't automatically let the discussion devolve into culture wars!! And allows handsome 2D women! Anyway everyone buy and play Hyakume no Hananie when it comes out [hypnosis spirals]

I do think it's dumb when people can't see beyond the version of something they've created in their minds, or treating headcanons like they're actual representation or a fact they use to police people. Especially when it comes at the cost of neglecting actual bi characters. But there's also nothing wrong with interpreting media or simply having thoughts or What Ifs that deviate from the original work and that's kind of the transformative nature of art. I don't see it as "forcing" to simply state that someone could be X thing as they don't have power to change the canon. And yeah when it comes to bisexuality in particular it's just something that gets called into question even irl since most people aren't dating 2 genders at once and I guess I get why there'd be attemps to normalize it.

that i cannot tell you, im sorry, since its been a couple of years ago. it mightve been a character from nukani? i think so at least

Ah it being the nucani mc could've caused it since he's the only one outright stated to be gay. Outrage over that is still stupid especially since Eiden himself wouldn't get mad at anyone for wanting to fuck him so bad that they draw little pictures about it...

 

[ninnikuryona]

Anyway everyone buy and play Hyakume no Hananie when it comes out [hypnosis spirals]

hell yes!!!! im so happy the author is loud and proud about a yuri route in her game. im very very excited!!!! and this lady looks so hot too... i really hope it blows up.....!

 

[ninnikuryona]

Thankfully I've never felt desperate enough to seek BL in otome but I think yuri is thrown under the bus in these discussions where people insist the genre is !!!heterosexual!!!!! (Then you check OPs profile they're whining about how Precure has gotten too woke or something, like clockwork.) I mean it technically is, as a result. But when fans and companies are discussing boundaries, I appreciate when the emphasis is on the whole premise of Heroine x LI instead, like you said ("especially not men" could raise question marks but who cares you do you lol) That's a very clear respectable rule that doesn't automatically let the discussion devolve into culture wars!! And allows handsome 2D women!

that i agree with. unfortunately it seems like not even otome players themselves are aware of there being multiple yuri routes in otome, platonic or not. berubara, ozmafia, mysme (this one is controversial but its still yuri), gekka ryouran romance. but these games are pretty old by now.. and it seems like only indie devs are willing to take a risk. please otmt wake the heck up... you already fumbled both berubara and bakarina......
also, i feel like its natural for otome to be defined as a heterosexual genre. just like galge is defined as heterosexual genre, despite many older titles using yuri scenes as another way to excite the reader. but thats just pure sexual fanservice, which might be considered a little controversial in present times..? but anyway i do think that yuri should not be silenced (?)

 

[エブリン]

i dont see why this should be discussed in the open. otome games are gxb for the player, aka a woman, to selfinsert into, so why would you fantasize about which character actually loves men as well? i just dont see the appeal
and mind you, this never happens with galge. probably because galge players know full well that all girls are attracted to the protagonist/the player only

i completely agree with your point; the first otome game I played had a very popular LixLI ship, And that annoyed me so much that I left those game-related groups, I definitely don't want to see any bl content in otome games

 

[ninnikuryona]

the first otome game I played had a very popular LixLI ship, And that annoyed me so much that I left those game-related groups,

;-; that sounds tough.. which one was it if youre okay with sharing?

 

[エブリン]

;-; that sounds tough.. which one was it if youre okay with sharing?

That's Mystic Messenger. The ship was Jumin and Zen, and they were both my favorites, so seeing people constantly ship them together made me really uncomfortable. What annoyed me even more was how some people nowadays act like anyone who's uncomfortable with two characters being shipped in an otome game simply "wouldn't survive the Mystic Messenger era."
Well, I survived that era lol. And honestly, I'm glad that shipping two male characters together doesn't seem to be nearly as common in otome community spaces as it used to be. At least I don't have to constantly see those posts anymore.

 

[lambdadelta]

i believe we can all agree twitter is not the best place lol, personally i don't see much point in bringing arguments from a website to another. but if i'm remembering correctly the person in question wasn't called transphobic over that specific post regarding bisexual hcs, it was because of other posts. which i won't look for, i don't want to dig through a stranger's profile like that... nor do i want to indirectly contribute to any insults they might be receiving + expose trans people to something that can hurt them.

agreeing with 801_9ma here: headcanons should be for fun and it's not worth fighting over. i think we can all practice some blocking, muting, ignoring and moving on to create an online space where you're not constantly arguing and unnecessarily stressing yourself out. we can all debate this to exhaustion but at the end of the day we cannot control what people do in the privacy of their own minds/their imagination so i think it's kinda pointless? if somebody wants to hc a character a bisexual or trans, they will do so. and i see it as just that - a what-if. i've seen a post analyzing a certain character (not from a otome game, tho) through transfeminine lens and while i hadn't ever considered it before (and i'm certain that wasn't the intention of the author, but i don't think the "intent" card should be used to discredit those interpretations) it was interesting to read nonetheless.

and i wanted to add mitsuki kugajima from club suicide is canonically bisexual love that guy

 

[ninnikuryona]

That's Mystic Messenger. The ship was Jumin and Zen, and they were both my favorites, so seeing people constantly ship them together made me really uncomfortable. What annoyed me even more was how some people nowadays act like anyone who's uncomfortable with two characters being shipped in an otome game simply "wouldn't survive the Mystic Messenger era."
[COLOR=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.87)]Well, I survived that era lol. And honestly, I'm glad that shipping two male characters together doesn't seem to be nearly as common in otome community spaces as it used to be. At least I don't have to constantly see those posts anymore. [/COLOR]

oh of course its this one LMAO unfortunately even the game itself was encouraging these "jokes". and unfortunately it got even worse in their next game, the ssum

 

[エブリン]

oh of course its this one LMAO unfortunately even the game itself was encouraging these "jokes". and unfortunately it got even worse in their next game, the ssum

That joke was related to Jumin Han, right? I really didn't like it at all but it seems like the first time I saw that joke, I didn't take it seriously, maybe because, if I remember correctly, that joke didn't appear very often in the game. Now I'm actually glad I never played their next game. If it was even worse than MM, I definitely dodged a bullet there

 

[ninnikuryona]

Now I'm actually glad I never played their next game. If it was even worse than MM, I definitely dodged a bullet there

its been a while since i last read discussions and screenshots, but yeah the ssum has two dudes openly flirt with each other, check each other's bodies, even sleeping in the same bed. one of their mother also shipped them two. oh and you (the player) cant get mad at them. there are literally no such options. so yeah, if youre sensitive to this stuff, maybe you shouldnt touch this game