Denied Sub-sections for spam section~

[~SnowAngel~]

*summary

What I've suggested is having two sections for the spam section. "Just for fun" and "random."

JFF is what it sounds like~ for people that are looking to have fun, learn about each other, and like to express themselves. It would be things like (What did you do this morning? What anime do you like better? Share a random thought, what are you listening to?)

Random is where the topic is either random (such as LPW), or maybe personal or one-time things. (ex: holiday/birthday, topic about a person, it's hard to say XD)


By splitting the sections, I'm hoping that it'll get more people interested with learning or sharing about each other. The JFF would be more optimistic, or something to do like the forum games. :3
I'm especially interested in the quiz-type of threads, and want to see more people also interested in them too.

soo if you're new or a guest, it still matters to me if you have something to add~ Just agreeing or not would be fine too.


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Soo right now, there are 9 pages of threads in the spam section. (50 threads per page?) more than likely, more and more will be pilled onto them. Some threads that are just for fun people enjoy more often. Some actually are a little more serious, but not a debate.

Some have a real purpose (ex: what things you like, LPW, fun questions, birthdays, post your favorit __, etc.) These threads have topics people follow. They're almost like the game section.

Some don't (random, unclear title, turned into a different purpose, etc?)

I'm not entirely sure how it would best be organized, but it would be nice to have a place to keep "just for fun" separate from random/seriousness~

sooo I want to hear what a few people have to say and if they'd like this idea~ It would mean that you wouldn't have to hunt down for that fun thread anymore :P annd it may even encourage more fun threads~

 

[Ignis]

the pure and innocent room has it's organized sections too. x-x so why couldn't the spam section?

Because the spam section is just that... THE spam section.

It's there for threads that don't exactly belong in other sections, threads that people can just randomly pitch in and post anything (so long as it's not malicious and nefarious by nature), threads that don't need organisation. Things like that.

If the spam section is divided into different subsections with specific purposes and definitions, if people are going to be reprimanded for posting―or at least careful not to post―a spam thread that doesn't belong in the correct spam subsection, doesn't that make the spam section no longer a place where you can just group all the unorganised but not infringing (lol) threads within? Won't that require active moderation to at least ensure that no threads are posted where they don't belong, as members can't move threads themselves? Won't that defeat the entire purpose for which it was made in the first place?

If anything, separating popular threads from not-popular would help.

There are already ways to do so. For spam threads, as technically they still contain discussions, the first page just does that: show which threads are "fresh" and recently getting replies. If you disagree with this standard of being "popular," that's fine too; you can also sort threads by the amount of replies or views. It doesn't require any subsection or organisation to accomplish this goal. The way threads are presented to you are just how it looks by default―it doesn't mean that you can't alter it to your liking.

Hmm if someone rates a popular thread then it should pop up more anyhow? Popular threads just sort of stay around the top anyway?

Unfortunately, most vBulletin-based forums I've been involved with rarely make use of the thread rating system. Still, I believe replies and views can also amount to the definition of "popularity."

The debate section has a few threads that can be spam, or are serious (or turned into that) but don't have titles that seem as serious.

It's exactly as WsE said:

Problem is, nearly all users here are spammers, meaning they don't care which section you put your thread in. They will turn any thread into a spam thread. ... The difference between a serious and a spam thread, to me, is not necessarily the content of the thread, but how the OP presents it in their thread.

Not all OPs are good at starting conversations. In your case, ~SnowAngel~, it's often the reverse: your starting posts are often too long and/or comprehensive for threads within the spam section. An OP can't blame people for posting insubstantial stuff in their supposedly serious thread when they failed to present it as something serious.

I'm sure I'm not the only one~ threads that I wanted to have more serious conversations about were put into the spam section.

Again, it's as WsE said.

People might not be posting in the debate section as much because of either the little content there, or expectations they have.

To be utterly honest, whether a section is active or dead depends on members and not staff. If you feel that a certain section needs more attention and active discussions going on, it's in your power to kickstart more discussions that can incite more people to pay attention to the section. It's in every member's power to avoid posting insubstantial stuff and making the thread spammy.

People mainly post in threads that they're interested in, not just because of the section it's in.

While this might be true, I'm willing to bet most newcomers would check the sections they're interested in first―if they're looking for discussions or involvement with the community and not downloads―instead of directly searching for threads that contain certain keywords.

You never know who you'd meet because of something really simple, and find that something eventually makes a big difference

It's also in every member's power to promote the socialisation within the community. The LPW is a good start, since most of the active posters there are veteran spammers that can quickly direct newcomers to threads of interest. How to make more people come to the LPW or even know what it is? Well, nobody forbids you from advertising it to new members introducing themselves.

Both categories can have serious or not serious, and are clear enough to make separation possible. The only thing needed to look for is the JFF type and leave the rest where they are. (or turn them into a section).

I'm not very optimistic on the idea of clear differentiation here. Many would just group the two as the same thing. The forum game alone is separated because it's totally easy to draw the dividing line and it's something where people can quickly go to increase their post count without much effort.

 

[~SnowAngel~]

exactly, games are also like spam. People may start out there, then join the spam section.

Most of the download sections are highly organized (ecchi places especially). So one could say that it only needs one section for each, but it was intended to help people know what they're looking at. (game osts, anime osts, non-osts?)

that sounds like the spam section to me~
(game threads, JFF, random)

 

[Ignis]

...How could you even begin to think of associating the organisation of the sharing subsections with that of spam?

 

[~SnowAngel~]

Each section is given one main idea, and some split into ways it can be best organized. Think of any section with sub-sections as how the spam section is right now. (only one section) There are threads in there that can probably be separated based on different things. ([anime] number or episodes, [VN] length to play, [music] flac or mp3, etc?)
The talking about games section could be split just as the download section is. Even for just minor things like pc section and consol section.

For those example given above, people might not think to look for different ways that spam can be organized. The label of spam on those threads seems to impair people since they aren't looking for common traits in those threads. Turning a cold shoulder on the idea also limits that.

The spam section is based on one main idea, while allowing "random" things under it. If it were true to its name, it wouldn't be possible to make a large difference as I'm suggesting. People are used to thinking of the spam section in a certain way. Unless they participate in the many threads and notice that there is a trend, they would never realize the possibility to organize it a little.

Regardless that there would still be a section true to its name (random/spam), looking through the threads with one idea in mind (JFF) would immediately be noticeably different from the rest of the threads seen throughout the pages just for the titles. You could apply this idea similarly to the download sections. (ex: game-related vs actual game-osts.)

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm further divisions... well random is quite vague and theres pretty much an unlimited amount of ways to split such a section as long as theres the imagination to do it... the split of spam and games was already sort of what you were asking for?

 

[Ignis]

That's... excessive. With your idea of restructuring, we'd have an excessive amount of subsections with overwhelming complications (especially for newcomers) and much fewer threads in every one of them. We're not THAT big, especially not in terms of discussions. We don't get 9001 new threads everyday. Individual subsections will look deserted and people may hesitate to post a new thread, thinking that the staff would mercilessly gun them down should they fail to judge where they should post it.

[anime] number or episodes,

This sounds absurd and unnecessary. I could understand if you suggested that anime be organised into different genres (which I would still disagree with as that would give birth to the possibility of a thread belonging in more than one section), but number of episodes? You open an anime download thread and the first post immediately tells you how many episodes it has (this is why we're strict about including information in download threads). If it's still airing, you may see a ? instead of the amount of episodes, but... that's a given?

[VN] length to play,

And what even makes this a fixed parameter people can count on? VNDB? It's most likely just a rough estimation. I can take over a week to finish a standard VN but many of my acquaintances can finish it in two. Some Japanese folk I know of can finish it in six hours or less. And even if it were a fixed standardisation, it still would make little sense to organise VNs we have here (I won't comment on how people organise their files; each to their own) based on it.

[music] flac or mp3,

Very few non-ASL members post lossless music and some who do may prefer to post both lossless and lossy in the same thread because it requires less :effort:. It'd also mean more hassle for ASL to post their threads in separate sections each time. You're with them; you should know that most of them would object to this.

The talking about games section could be split just as the download section is. Even for just minor things like pc section and consol section.

Shoving aside the ever-present possibility of causing each subsection to have too few threads, separating discussion for games by console is even less relevant as many, many games are playable on different consoles, some with changes and additions (ever heard of polymorphic content marketing?). Let's say we have a subsection each for PC, PS3, and Xbox360. A member makes a thread about Skyrim in the PS3 section... so I mustn't post there and must make a new Skyrim thread in the PC section because I only play it on PC?

people might not think to look for different ways that spam can be organized. The label of spam on those threads seems to impair people since they aren't looking for common traits in those threads.

That would almost be like having a forum inside a subsection. Do you think people would go to the spam section if they were looking for something specific and/or organised in the first place?

The spam section is based on one main idea, while allowing "random" things under it. If it were true to its name, it wouldn't be possible to make a large difference as I'm suggesting.

It is true to its name as it is: allowing random things and not enforcing organisation.

People are used to thinking of the spam section in a certain way. Unless they participate in the many threads and notice that there is a trend, they would never realize the possibility to organize it a little.

Perhaps you should consider pooling your time and efforts into livening up the other non-spam sections instead of trying to change what first impression people would get when they see a "spam section" on a forum?

You could apply this idea similarly to the download sections. (ex: game-related vs actual game-osts.)

Music albums are organised based on how the official labels/organisations treat them. For example, this album―yes, nao and fripSide have done many songs for various games in the past, many of which are included in the anthology, but there are also a lot of original songs. And that's not uncommon at all for music albums: some tracks from previous works done in association with certain franchise plus one or two new, original songs. On the other hand, this album, while seemingly identical in nature, is put under the game OST section as Circus is a game company and not an independent music label/distributor. It's safe to assume that music released under their brand name is attributed to one of their products.

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm if people object to "spam section" then maybe a simple name change would help change their reactions to it? I suppose spam seems to have a somewhat negative emotive meaning...

 

[Ignis]

Hmm if people object to "spam section" then maybe a simple name change would help change their reactions to it? I suppose spam seems to have a somewhat negative emotive meaning...

Personally, I think it's fine as it is. I don't suppose the word "spam" is understood negatively in the context of online forums such as ASF. It should be rather clearly differentiated from the actually bad and potentially harmful kind of spam, e.g. camsex advertisement in your mailbox (no sane forum staff would consciously leave that kind of spam around).

 

[~SnowAngel~]

([anime] number or episodes, [VN] length to play, [music] flac or mp3, etc?)
The talking about games section could be split just as the download section is. Even for just minor things like pc section and consol section.

These are merely examples I was giving that there's more than one way to organize~ I wasn't trying to imply a change like that :P

Two sections isn't really excessive, even if the game section were added as part of the spam section.

I don't know the things mods do for the spam section, but if there would be a need for another staff due to the change, there is a person I know who may be willing to help. New threads aren't made often enough to be a big problem (as you say~).

Overwhelmingly complicated would be either unorganized, or over-organized. Could the spam section be considered complicated, for lack of words to describe all of it? Sure, people know the purpose. But how do you describe what's in there?

If needed, the JFF section could have a sticky thread describing what threads are to be there. (similar to some other sections).

If the staff portrays themselves well, there'd be no fear of thread changes. Even a simple explanation helps people feel better about a move or something. (my experience with will~ lol).

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soo describing some things said so far:

some threads were created to be serious/on topic, yet are in the spam section which supposedly wouldn't need that rule. (but apparently still does.. -.-~)

There's threads created as random or turned into random. The topic may have been intended as serious or not. They either have no special topic, or the topic is no longer relevant. (becomes like an lpw, is dead).

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going further~

There's game-like threads that are meant for a topic, and can be serious or not. These are either continuous, or one-time. These are mostly ways for people to express themselves. (ex: how are you~?, what are you listening to?, what did you have for breakfast?, favorit music band?, etc.) The one-time type may either die or become random, but they usually die.

There's random threads not made as often, are usually unpredictably made, and could be considered a discussion most of the time. However, they would be tossed into the spam section if they were made in the discussion section.
(ex: It's All about S(p)am~
The Random Thread
The relation between online and offline bonds~
Make a short speech
Happy Birthday [person])

While topics like that and more are serious, there's too few of each kind to worry about a section for each. (and people would feel safer with "random" as a section name when making new threads.)

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Explaining my suggestion again~ JFF (just for fun) is mainly light-hearted, and mostly answers a question based on the thread name/purpose. There's no debate-type threads there mixed in. You can think of it as a game of telling about yourself.

Random may or might not be serious, but not serious enough to be in the discussion section. These are probably more common with personal topics (one-time) or unclear ones.



If you have a good idea what I mean about JFF, you could probably figure out which ones fit that idea, and which don't. The ones that don't would be random. If it still doesn't make sense, I could find several threads of each type for you. (explaining too if you want~)

 

[kactaplb]

All this for just spam D: Well as a spammer I'm against the idea. Not sure if you've seen some other forums with >9000 subsections but they always have deserted sections despite the better organization. Why? Because people will gather around where other people are. Noone will pay attention to a deserted section much less post in one. They'll go straight for whatever's most popular, on the front page, or relevant to their interests.

Arguing isnt going to get you far. I would think most of the staff and spammers would be against. Hold a poll maybe if you are resolute on seeing it through.

 

[corocoro]

When you create a subsection, you more often than not sacrifice activity for organization - the more different area's there are for people to place things, the more they have to look to find what they want, and the less likely they are to actually post.
You keep bringing up two things. The first is that some threads are dead, but that's not really a concern as it is the way of everything not popular enough. The second concern is that the reorganizing would help people find things better, but you're just projecting from yourself to others. Experience has shown that most boards share certain basic attributes (including a spam section) that are commonly understood by everyone that spent at least a bit of time online - subdividing those sections is just going to create more confusion than it could ever avoid.

 

[~SnowAngel~]

oh well, i tried~ lol
There's not really much more to say than hearing from more people. x-x
Soo please leave this open for a few more replies. (or the 21st at the latest?)
I'm not sure if the poll would get buried or something, but I'll make one anyway. (Some people wouldn't look here otherwise~)

i'll edit the first for the main idea~

 

[Ghost Kitty~]

Hmm JFF just isnt a clear divide from spam... if it was made then it could basically replace the games section since thats for fun too... though since it is somewhat closer to the spam in description (people post random stuff for fun anyway dont they? though i guess a few threads arent purely for fun xD) Anyhow "fun" is more vague that "games" so it might just cause confusion...

 

[Ignis]

So we've survived yet another apocalypse and, as you wish, the thread's been left open. I'm sorry to say that your poll doesn't seem to have gained any solid support, nor has there been any new post in this thread agreeing with your suggestion.

Closed.