Anime Sharing - Netorare General Discussion Thread

[MerrilMan]

Really? Did you MTLed engines not supported by mtool, like OyakoRankan's? Without textractor, which is painfully slow. Here we have working out of the box.

Oyako Rankan works perfectly with textractor though. And ITHVNR before that. I've never used MTool for anything, there's no real reason too. And even then, why wait around hoping that somebody else will do it for you?

[Shadovv]

Oyako Rankan works perfectly with textractor though. And ITHVNR before that. I've never used MTool for anything, there's no real reason too. And even then, why wait around hoping that somebody else will do it for you?

Dude, what textractor? There is always delay GAME-->Textractor-->TranslationSolution.
OyakoRankan (it was an example) is already MTLed for free. English text appears instantly and is in the game, not in separate window.
But other games, like Moirai's await translation.

This is big QOL change!

[Namkapple]

Why would you bother voting for the chance that someone else may machine translate a game, when you can do it yourself in a few seconds?

I don't get this either. It's not like the barrier to entry to translate games yourself is particularly hard. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. It's these kinds of zero standard lowest common denominator people that have ruined the hentai space. I'm getting so sick of the MTL being pumped out left and right. Not to mention said MTL producers ask for money and donations and you have actual people paying up. It's insane.

[MerrilMan]

Dude, what textractor? There is always delay GAME-->Textractor-->TranslationSolution.
OyakoRankan (it was an example) is already MTLed for free. English text appears instantly and is in the game, not in separate window.
But other games, like Moirai's await translation.

This is big QOL change!

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, as there's no meaningful delay to the process of the hooking or translation of text that I've ever encountered (if that's what you mean). And yes, I played Oyako Rankan with ITHVNR years and years ago, that's hardly new. And really, cramming MTL'd text back into a game is just a terrible idea. You cannot alter the inputted text on the fly, you cannot use various useful tools like substitutions to ensure a consistent translation of unique terms, you do not have the original Japanese at hand to use with dictionaries, nor can you do anything about any and all mistakes left in. And if you absolutely need to fullscreen your eroge, then textractor has its overlay function anyway.
Like Namkapple says, I just find it utterly bizarre that people would purposefully choose to be this lazy.

[Animefan_09]

I thought the point was that it used Sugoi to translate wich is better than google and deepL, or maybe some fancy new AI transaltor that is better (i saw mention of one recently that was a huge improvement with AI trans).

Anyway i see a couple of game i want to try (mostly BISHOP and Liquid) so long as is better than google i am ok with it............hopefully Triangle Blue and othe rLilim games get translated too xD

PS: Mtool is getting very popular recently but the free version as many limitations like size and using only google, so if this circunvents those i do see some use for it

[Namkapple]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, as there's no meaningful delay to the process of the hooking or translation of text that I've ever encountered (if that's what you mean). And yes, I played Oyako Rankan with ITHVNR years and years ago, that's hardly new. And really, cramming MTL'd text back into a game is just a terrible idea. You cannot alter the inputted text on the fly, you cannot use various useful tools like substitutions to ensure a consistent translation of unique terms, you do not have the original Japanese at hand to use with dictionaries, nor can you do anything about any and all mistakes left in. And if you absolutely need to fullscreen your eroge, then textractor has its overlay function anyway.
Like Namkapple says, I just find it utterly bizarre that people would purposefully choose to be this lazy.

What they mean with delay I think, is the output delay. I'm assuming here, so I could be wrong.

Hooked text in current text box - > gets sent to tl program(google, deepl, yandex, etc...) -> depending on the text and maybe your PC, it can take anywhere from 1-5 secs for it to translate and then appear in textractor.

essentially this is/can be a limitation, sure, but imo it's not a big one at all. Especially due to the freedom you get from it. It only truly becomes an issue when you hold down CTRL to skip text and the program ends up trying to tell multiple paragraphs worth of text. Google is still instant or relatively fast more or less. DeepL is the one with the lag so to speak.


All in all imo it's not a problem but I can see how some people can be annoyed by it over the long run. I don't think sacrificing this for a lack of Jap text and someone else's MTL is a worthwhile trade as MerrilMan put it.

[Redorc]

There is almost no delay with deepl or google, but there can a big one if you use a local translator like the sugoi model, as depending on your hardware it can be up to 20s-30s or even more, or crash, and make your pc slow as hell at the same time.
Personally I don't use any of these mtool thingies as I prefer sending to clipboard then either reading or sending to deepl, but I can see the point of mtling the thing if it's EDITED mtl. I wouldn't be interested since I played these games anyway, but for someone who wants to play offline where sugoi is the only choice, I can see the point. (Actually there is also ATLAS v14 with fhc legendary wacky dictionary if you're around here since long enough... and if you like 80% nonsense.)
The choice sadly is not between mtl and proper translation for any of these niche nukige, it's usually between nothing or mtl, with edited mtl probably the best anyone can hope for.

[Shadovv]

I thought the point was that it used Sugoi to translate wich is better than google and deepL, or maybe some fancy new AI transaltor that is better (i saw mention of one recently that was a huge improvement with AI trans).

Anyway i see a couple of game i want to try (mostly BISHOP and Liquid) so long as is better than google i am ok with it............hopefully Triangle Blue and othe rLilim games get translated too xD

PS: Mtool is getting very popular recently but the free version as many limitations like size and using only google, so if this circunvents those i do see some use for it

Mtool does not support most VNs at all.

On top of that, the guy who translates keeps the data ready for-re translation. So when Sugoi 6,10,2090, whatever pops up with better MTL, this guy has already most work done and can release better MTL.

(not related to quoted Animefan, it is about some other people):
BTW. I see some malcontency here from some people, some people fail to see that for many users such hardcoded MTL is first acceptable experience for VNs/games with NTR.

It is zero-effort (just replace files from archive)
It has no delay AT ALL - you some people here state this was not an issue with extractors - for me and some other people it is an issue.
It is offline and private. Deepl/Google monitors everything and some VNs surely trigger (falsely) some alarms.
Ability to change a translation with online stuff is a niche request.
The text is where it belongs, not in some rectangle next to the game. Also, while some stuff remains untranslated anyway, patched-MTL has more text translated than hooked online one. Online/hooking translating is a lot less immersive.

I think I said enough, cause malcontents will surely attack the project anyway, no point to say all reasons over and over. The users will decide themselves what they want and I am sure what it will be.

PS. Some people are whining about someone put an effort for modern HQ MTL (not Google's "poetry") and ask for an OPTIONAL donation, delivering patches for free.
In case you think MTL is an cancer or sth, feel free to provide actual translation. And ofc never ask for money, since asking for the money for work, time, effort is so bad.

[Namkapple]

>HQ MTL with Sugoi
The amount of copium is crazy. Go to sadpanda and look at uploads that claim they have been done with Sugoi. It is still littered with errors. You want to translate it via MTL? Great. Just keep it to yourself imho.

Again you have to look at the bigger picture. If more and more people end up not caring cause its "good enough" this pervasive mindset is seen by corporations/bottom feeders that want to farm e-peen points and will be exploited. Because companies don't care, they just want the least amount of effort put in with the maximum profit. And since most of the fanbase is/will end up being this brain dead zero standard majority, the hobby ends up becoming a shallow husk. Want examples? I can give you a few.

1. Webnovel: It is all MTL now, they barely even take the time to edit it. Why? Because brain dead apes keep paying for it, or just donating because they want to "support". This goes beyond webnovel though. Almost every KR, CN, JP novel is MTL'd now.
2. Irodori: This fucker's DMCA aside (it has ruined the doujin scene), but I digress. His translations are either sometimes incorrect or censored
3. Random manga off the top of my head: Saikyou no Maou ni Kitaerareta Yuusha, Watashitachi, Rikon Shimasu, bocchi the rock, Tsui no Taimashi: Ender Geister, 99% of korean webtoons, etc....

Go to mangadex click on some manga and just check some uploads from people. You can find single person teams, so one person, upload translations of a series in Chinese, Korean and Japanese, while being ESL themselves. It's absolutely insane.

To quote a user from Sadpanda: SSincere

There's a concept in economics known as Gresham's law, which, stated most briefly, is "Bad money drives out good." What this means that if you have two different kinds of money in circulation -- one being "good money", like a silver coin whose face value is close to the bulk value of the metal, and the other "bad money", like paper bills that don't have intrinsic value -- that the "good money" will be replaced in circulation by the "bad money", as people hoard the "good money" for its bulk value and only circulate the "bad money". This can apply to two different monies issued by the same government, or to precious metal coinage versus debased/devalued versions of the same, or to real versus counterfeit bills. It's pretty easily illustrated in the US: prior to 1964, dimes and quarters were made with some percentage of real silver, and once the mint switched to base metals, the older, silver coins rapidly left circulation. They were collected for their bullion value, and the new, less valued coins took their place.

It's not a perfect fit, but the metaphor can certainly extend to these scanslations -- if a "good" fan translator has the time and opportunity to work on one of two doujinshi, one with no translation at all and one that already has a "bad" translation, from a purely return-for-investment perspective, it makes more sense for them to translate the new book. This is how "bad", and even "good enough", are the enemies of the "best".

On the other hand, at least bad money circulates.

I can't say if this is a bad thing or good thing definitively. As it has some pros. In my opinion, though, it is a negative all-in-all.

When things become popular/mainstream/corporations get their teeth in a hobby. It explodes. This is great because you see an initial boom of content that is well made, or in this case translated. As the years go on. Due to more and more people falling in love with the hobby, people want more content and want it sooner.
>More manga/anime/doujins/VN etc.. is getting made
>more people in the hobby
>want more content
>want the content fast
So this is what you get. Quantity over quality. I can consume more manga, anime, doujins than ever before. I'm never lacking content. On the downside the type of content being produced (in my subjective opinion) is sub-standard, and the translation of said content is lacking too.

[JokerXY]

anyone have 0.41 for fujino sao game?