help with words that trouble me

[jeffreymgibson]

Since I've been studying Japanese, I have run across many words that I struggle with. Most notably are words with R(s) in them.

For example "kaeritai desu" or "かえりたい です" , when the girl on the pimsleur CD pronounces this, it sounds like she is saying the letter D instead of R. So should I make more of a D sound, or should I stick with an R. There are tons of other words that do the same thing, as least as far as my ears can tell.

Another good example is hitori. Usually when pronounced by a native speaker, it sounds like their saying story.

I understand that R's are a little different in Japanese and I try my best to mimic the way the Japanese pronounce R(s). However, it seems to me they pronounce r(s) differently depending on the word. Should I take each r on a word to word basis or should I pronounce them all the same? Any insite will be appreciated.

Jeffrey


Thanks,
Jeffrey
hitori

 

[FinalPyre]

It doesn't sound completely like an r because it isn't completely an r. It is kind of a mix between r, d, and l but it tends towards r.

In general it should sound more like an 'r'. かえりたい　whenever I hear it is a pretty strong 'r' sound. I think it might depend more on the speaker on how it ends up sounding.

 

[zero2323]

in Japanese the r can be l because Japanese dont have the real r. Next time when you see it.it just l.like ti the true is ch

 

[mildis]

Basically, it is the problem of linguistics.

[R] in Japanese is the phoneme, /r (ja)/. The real physical sounds (proninciations) of R (JA) are different sounds, case by case, acccording to persons, situations etc.

So it has almost no meanings to discuss which sounds are near to [R (ja)] sounds.

This thing can be said in English [R] and French [R] etc. as well. Their real phhysical sounds are different according to situations.

Japanese [R] sounds like the mixed sounds of [R (en)] and [L (en)] in the Standard English. (roughly, this is right. but there are many exceptions).

[R (en)] in the Standard English.
[R (de)] in the Standard German (typically it has two type sounds)
[R (fr)] in the Standard French.

These consonant sounds are all different.

One can say:

[R (en)] is like [R (ja)], but different.
[R (de), 2nd] is like [R (ja, special)], but different.
[R (fr)] is like the mixture of [R (ja)] and [G (ja)], but different.

Also, [R (ja)] in "kaRasu (crow)" and [R (ja)] in "giRon (discussion)" are usually different physical sounds.
Consonant [R (ja)] in "Ra" and "Ro" are usually, physically, different sounds.

But as the phoneme, /R (ja)/ in "Ra" and "Ro" is the same "sound". This "sound" is not physical sounds. Sound as phoneme.


mrd