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Thread: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

  1. #781
    Modding Dai Shogun enimaroah's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    Hey, that seems to work. Using worldcoordinates in vertex positions and using Identity matrices in Transforms produced a good result, while using a scaler made the shadow bug visible.

    But I have to check other bounding boxes of original MeshRenderers. Although it seems to be unlikely I need to verify if the bounding boxes are really local.
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    がんばってね! GIL★ギル's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    Sorry guys, it seems I was too hasty in my conclusion After reading your input and doing more tests, it would appear the bug indeed remains.
    My test was flawed: I was using a model that seems particulary resilient to the bug. I can't understand it at all, but it's a fact. Some hairs and clothes are affected by this way harder than others.
    I managed to find an angle that showed signs of the bug even on the resilient subject in the boulevard. You can see it in picture 1. Very light tho.
      Spoiler: picture 1 

    Same subject in a newly modified in 1.9 DR Mall shows a greater bugged effect (picture 2)
      Spoiler: picture 2 

    What is baffling is that the boulevard is not only quite larger, it has shadow cast/receive activated on all meshes. In comparison, the modified Mall only has receive shadows on the inner Mall floor. The big green outfield and most of the other meshes have no shadows activated.
    Picture 3 is a size comparison, but please note that the boulevard is scaled in SB3U matrix x10. In game, both are set to size 1:1:1.
      Spoiler: picture 3 

    Running test with a very vulnerable subject to the bug, it again shows the difference in severity.
      Spoiler: pictures 4-5: new subject 


    I hope that could help. If you need the files to run tests by yourselves, I can provide.
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  3. #783
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

      Spoiler: GIl 
    Quote Originally Posted by GIL★ギル View Post
    Sorry guys, it seems I was too hasty in my conclusion After reading your input and doing more tests, it would appear the bug indeed remains.
    My test was flawed: I was using a model that seems particulary resilient to the bug. I can't understand it at all, but it's a fact. Some hairs and clothes are affected by this way harder than others.
    I managed to find an angle that showed signs of the bug even on the resilient subject in the boulevard. You can see it in picture 1. Very light tho.
      Spoiler: picture 1 

    Same subject in a newly modified in 1.9 DR Mall shows a greater bugged effect (picture 2)
      Spoiler: picture 2 

    What is baffling is that the boulevard is not only quite larger, it has shadow cast/receive activated on all meshes. In comparison, the modified Mall only has receive shadows on the inner Mall floor. The big green outfield and most of the other meshes have no shadows activated.
    Picture 3 is a size comparison, but please note that the boulevard is scaled in SB3U matrix x10. In game, both are set to size 1:1:1.
      Spoiler: picture 3 

    Running test with a very vulnerable subject to the bug, it again shows the difference in severity.
      Spoiler: pictures 4-5: new subject 


    I hope that could help. If you need the files to run tests by yourselves, I can provide.


    So I should wait for it or what? I intend to release the SBPR island but after reading your post. I am now waiting what to do

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    Modding Dai Shogun enimaroah's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    Verified: Mesh's and submesh's Center and Extend seem local to me. Translation and rotation of several original items were like that. I couldn't find a scaled item but I am sure that scaling must be handled local too.

    GIL, please try a map with a scaler, delete all meshes except one, save that version and check the bug. Then replace the mesh with the downscaled scaled version and make the scaler Identity. Check for the bug again. In my test it made a difference and the bug was nearly invisible without scaler.
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    花は桜木 人は武士 Aastaroth's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    I did it in the same procedure: export meshes with scaler, down-scale the vertices (not the mesh transform), re-import the down-scaled meshes and revert the scaler to identity.
    But, as long as the mesh reaches a size limit, the shadow bug starts to become noticeable.

    From my test, the limit is less than 10% of the far clipping plane.
    Within 5% of the far clipping plane, the bug is tolerable. Which is roughly the size of the skydome below:

      Spoiler:  


    Not a very long distance for map sized items to be honest. Any ground/sea/skydome meshes can easily exceed this limit.

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    がんばってね! GIL★ギル's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    @enimaroah: confirmed. Most vulnerable subject shows no signs of the bug after making scaler Identity in the modified map. I was underestimating how much the other meshes were contributing to the bug tho, because as you can see the bug is extremely faint already in the pre-file.
      Spoiler: before and after 


    Unfortunately, scaling the map ingame nets you the bug effect.

    EDIT: @aastaroth- if size is the only factor here, it's not a complete dealbreaker since most maps that have massive size don't really need shadow cast/receive on all of it's expansion. It's a pain, but we would have to selectively deativate it on the meshes that are not normally used for posing models. The problem is we're encountering this bug too on meshes that don't really challenge the far-clip range. Actually, the domes are a great example. The Amemiya domes are far from huge, but at their default state they produce the bug like crazy. Another example would be the Dr mall floor I guess. But again, I'm a nurse talking to doctors right now, I just wish I could help.

    EDIT2: actually, scratch that, the domes are pretty big just a lil size comparison:
      Spoiler:  
    Last edited by GIL★ギル; February 11th, 2017 at 05:09 PM.
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    花は桜木 人は武士 Aastaroth's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    @GIL★ギル

    Yes, it should be related to the size, at least after the fix. To speak it more accurately, it should be the size of the meshes that matters.
    It is not directly related to size of the map though. A huge map can have more pieces of smaller meshes which gives better result than a skydome with one huge mesh.

    Using the default size of temple as an example. After the fix the shadow bug is tolerable.
      Spoiler:  


    Making the temple size 0.5 is enough to make the bug unnoticeable.

    But as I have said, this bug is not a killer to me. There are ways to circumvent the issue which includes the usage of shortcut plugin light setting. A slight tweak in angle direction gives different result.
    It is a hassle, but finding the fragmented pieces that exceeded the size limit from several hundred of them is way more painful. Not sure I am gonna do that

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    Modding Dai Shogun enimaroah's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    For testing purposes I tried fixed values at the edge.
    An extend of (0, 0, 0) made the item dissapear. (Single.MinValue, Single.MinValue, Single.MinValue) let the item remain visible but the girl's selfshadow was gone.

    And then I used Single.NaN which means "Not A Number" and so broke the math

    I am sure that this will have side effects, testing...
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    Senior Member Syncroz's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    Quote Originally Posted by enimaroah View Post
    For testing purposes I tried fixed values at the edge[...]
    For science!


    I was playing with the idea of chopping the boulevard up in smaller segments (pretty much as how the SBPR isle is divided).
    Then the better part of my brain took over and went for that it probably wouldn't have an greater impact on the issue.

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    Modding Dai Shogun enimaroah's Avatar
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    Re: [Mod Discussion] (Illusion) Honey♥Select (ハニーセレクト)

    @Syncroz,
    sure you could break bigger maps into pieces; and you would have to center each piece. And that would work of course. But as soon as the user would try to make scene with all pieces and would move the pieces out of the bounds the problem would return.

    On the other hand, someone making a comic doesn't have to use the full map. When there would be some movement through the full map they would only need to include two adjacent pieces and those could be small enough not to produce the bug.
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